can I give absolute positioning to an element without moving it horizontally?

cpu[1 x AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+ @ 2.13GHz w/ 512 KB L2 Cache]
whroops!

I remember when all my Atari STe had half a meg of RAM total
*had was

hehe
man, xchat got all the info about my boxen
ether[Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet]
video[ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AS [Radeon 9550] @ Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 741/741GX/M741 Host]
heh
enetdata eth1
netdata[eth1: 1079.3 MB Recieved, 55.7 MB Sent]
that's in 1 day 3 hours.. I wonder what it gets up to when I'm running torrents and the boxen is up for a month ~
mem[Physical : 1011MB, 18.8% free | Swap : 2863MB, 60.3% free]

sounds like windows :p

fuzzy76, right! I was running it recently in vmware. If I do, it make my box slow :/
until freakin' reboot _

bad vmware I suppose

bad windblows I suppose
os[zoffix@zoffix, Linux 2.6.20-16-generic i686]

well, vmware should ofcourse release all associated memory and processes to a guest os when the guest os is shut down

fuzzy76, yeah I know what you are saying, I have no idea why this happens. If I leave windblows running in vmware for a night.. my box will be hardly responsive in the morning :/

Hello chaps!

when background-image:url(../images/nav-bg.jpg); the image repeats, but when i set it on "no-repeat" no image shows at all. What other parameters can i use here?

Anyone had a problem with IE6 ignoring width:auto;?

Because background-image takes ONE property.

trovster, what alternative can i use ?

]css background @ MidasWS

css background: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#propdef-background

http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_background.asp

The spec is, erm, better, but meh

thanks trovster, that did the trick

]w3schools @ SimonNetEx

http://www.w3schools.com/flash/flash_inhtml.asp | Complete bullshit: http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_intro.asp

Oh dear.

]schools

Explore the intricacies of HTML and CSS here: www.blooberry.com/ , www.htmlhelp.com/ , http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ , www.brainjar.com/ , www.htmldog.com/ , http://css.maxdesign.com.au/

How can you get the same effect in css as setting the align property for an image?
No, that's not illegal.

can someone take a look at something for me? i have a weird IE disappearing border problem when a boundary div (relatively positioned) is set to a negative left value
http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test2.html
oddly, if i set a width on the contentbox, the border problem disappears. but suddenly the equal height columns i've got working stop working and the main area height shrinks up. totally confounded…

why is the image before "Articles" non-transparent in IE, but not in FF? http://eco.pats.no/playground

Quick question, how do you format cells in a table to have a border of 1px between them (not 2px because each cell has a 1px border adjacent)

hi.
absolute to #Menu div, my menu seems different between ie and firefox.here is link http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ how can i fix it ?

lots of questions, few answers in here

any idea?

yeah, what a great channel -.-

absolute to #Menu div, my menu seems different between ie and firefox.here is link http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ how can i fix it ?..

Well…
]know xhtml

Are you using XHTML? READ THIS: http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml , http://hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml , http://www.webdevout.net/articles/validity-and-well-formedness

Why transitional and not strict

problem is about doctype ?
so?
so, problem is about doctype?

meh

it almost ever is the problem
*NEVER

what will i do?

Doctype is almost NEVER the problem… ok!

What do you think about setting for all divs such style as default - overflow: hidden ?? Will it slow renderending?

Can't say for certain, but I think yes, it will — but again, don't really know. It would almost certainly depend on the browser's implementation.

http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ links dont same ie and ffx

Yeh, you keep repeating that…

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
in firefox this page displays properly, but in IE there is a white what seems to be 1px boreder between the intter cells
does anyone know what is causing this?

is it possible to use a gif image host for a custom cursor?

http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ why my menu seems different on ie and ffx ?

Yeh, you keep repeating that…

looks the same to me.

Flannel:are you sure?

no, but if you would mention what youre seeing as different, it'd make it easier

ok
my menu is on ie, under 3 -5 pixels from firefox location.im seeing it.

why text-indent shouldn't works there, please? http://www.laquarra.it/la-quarra-it/la-quarra-chi-siamo/la-quarra-appartamenti/tonino-la-quarra/
p class="des"a href="…"text/a

To which dark gods of CSS must I sacrifice to get Firefox to centre form legends? http://tachyondecay.net/php/dev/vsns/addnews.html

what's the best method of getting a background image in a safari text input?
i know that you can't really place one traditionally, but sites like apple.com have them - i just can't figure out how to recreate the effect

im looking for some nice horizontal dropdown menu implementations
maybe using jquery

Why li:hover + ul {} sorted.

lols
i wouldnt call that an implementation
perhaps with some whiz-bang action

How is that not an implentation? That's THE code you need for a dropdown menu.

ok, implementation with demo online that uses some shiny modern animation or other sparkly effects

http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81
ha, have fun.

yea that looks bad

What… ?

that link

What… ?

hte menus on the link you just posed

This is a long time ago… but I have a css question!

Hahahaha. Oh jesus.

IE6 PNG problem

Drop-down menus; no thanks! Some websites seem dead set on using drop-down menus for navigation, but I see so many problems with them I really can't understand why they persist. In this article I list out the main reasons I find them problematic and why I would always advise against their
use.

The CSS containing the immages

dae lemme guess, no alpha channel?

It's not about the dropdowns, and that site doesn't even have dropdowns, and the menus aren't "bad". It's an article about the lameness of dropdowns.

yeah probably. Problem is I don't know anything about alpha channel stuff

trov — i am supposed to replace some existing, crappy vertical navigation flash menus with some reasonable, css, horizontal menus
that will work with *
thats the kinds of examples im looking for
dae - you gotta put some IE centric active somethingorother code in there

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/ See More: http://www.google.com/search?q=png+ie+fix

Is it possible to use indexed PNGs instead of RGB PNGs? That's how I solve most of my PNG transparency issues with IE
You lose alpha transparency though

yeah but I need alpha for the shadows

indexing is really hard to match up sometimes

actually I'm just the coder, my graphic guy needs them

Ah

a) Don't use PNGs b) Remove certain channel (not sure which it is) to even out colour matching with hex c) Use the fix stated above.

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

Have you tried suckerfish dropdowns?

im looking at the superfish right now
im sure ill end up making my own anyway, just surveying right now
bim sure ill end up making my own anyway, just surveying right now/b
relax, trovster
thats no way to stay in the web game

I agree that dropdown menus aren't great, but they can be useful in certain cases

Sure it is.

i agree tach… I'm just trying to modernize some small critical elements of a new clients site, before we migrate its codebase to the next generation
totally needs a full redesign but thats impractical at this point

how does one make a textarea the size of its containing element?

Guys
I need help

lol

look at this page

um, dont think so

what?

i dont think you can do that with any certainty

… wow
so … in summary … CSS sux?

sure

100%; height: 100%;?

no, that doesn't work

I know that width works; I've never tried setting height

tach i think all thats dependent on font etc

doesn't account for padding/borders

Ah

plys each browser represents the box differently
ala scrollbars, etc

Yes, styling form elements can be a pain
Kill scrollbars :p

romes if you wanna see change, check out whatwg forms

hmmm

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/

Instead of fitting the textarea to your container, can you fit your container to your textarea?

crappy part is, I'm not using my own forms, I'm styling a Joomla module. heh.

the repetition model is pretty cool idea

can i have a class that floats right above another class
so in the class below it the text wraps it
it works in firefox
but not ie

can you say that again?

hold on

the text wraps what?
the float?
put the float after the class you want the text to wrap around

http://pastebin.ca/647645
right now that top one goes in and the bottom class text wraps it in firefox
but not ie

reverse the order

and that is the only way i can set it up , i cant put the class within the blah class
if i do that sky it just goes at the bottom of the blah class

i dont have IE sorry cant look at the issue
seems that your doing it correctly tho

Anyone alive around here?

]question
hrm

]ask

Just ASK! Those asking to ask are risking axing. Don't try the water. Don't try our patience. Don't be dumb. Just ask your question and wait.

Wow

trovster, any ideas on my problem?

what a welcoming

sky has you covered..

sigh

there we go

do yo understand what i am trying to do?
and is there a solution

trovster how about a little bit more respect and less condescension

what should I use to stop browsers assuming horizontal align of centre (FF assumes left, IE7 assumes centre)

}reset
]reset

]zip

* { margin: 0; padding: 0; }. You'll save yourself the confusion over quite a few strange element and browser spacing differences later on. * == http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#universal-selector

bah

I apologize for the solicit, but if anyone is interested in a web developer position, please send just your resume to humansky@princeton.edu, CSS and XHTML a must, XML/XSLT, Flash, and JavaScript a bonus

]reset needs to be added… :s

i'm using that already
but it doesn't sort out alignment

trovster, is it possible to have a class above another and it goes in the one below?

Are you talking about TR/td/th ?

in firefox it does

who is that directed at trovster
just use names
its far less confusing

you need to have the content before the image

there's a reason to use names, particularly when 5 people are chatting at once
have a code sample?
or the actual site to look at?

So… who were YOU talking to… haha

sky, even if i was to reverse them, then it just goes under it

its just an empty table

If there is too little space on a line for the floating element, it will jump down on the next line, and continue until a line has enough space.
Content, background, and borders of inline elements should go in front of the float. Background and borders of a block element should go behind the float, but the content of the block element should go in front of the float.

well it's not empty exactly but heres the site http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

sky, it would work fine, if i put it within class blah http://pastebin.ca/647645

well, i guess you dont have to have it second

but i cant in this situation

make the img display:block

sky, that class that is being wrapped is not an image
its just text ads

oh
then you might wanna spec a width on it
and still use displayblock

ya that does not good

umm, in http://bessey.no-ip.biz/CSS/customcal.css you have body text-align: center;
do you want it not centered?

correct
damn is that in the second style sheet?
yep right thanks fixed it

start with one stylesheet till you get it set right, then split it based on need

Will do

and get the web dev toolbar for firefox

no, get firebug

now how do I get those links to go next to each other instead of above?
http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

ok, i've a stupid question. i've a lot of experience coding, but not much in design like CSS. i have a page that works fine in everything we've tried but IE 6, but unfortunately we've a lot of folks still using that. it's a min-width/width sort of prob. my question is- can i/how do i set to
one property the value taken from another elements property? e.g. max-width: parent width; ?

rev
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width.html

hmz I can't seem to fix the alpha layer problem… or mmy IE4Linux doesn't work

how do i make content inside of a div centered
like vertically align the text so its centered, same padding on top as on bottom

Here's a better link, rev http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/000892.html

dont use padding, use height

line-height: sameasdivheight;

but vertical-align: probably works to

no , it wont

vertical-align only works on block level elements

no

how do you make divs go next to each other instead of stacking?

float

it works only on table-type elements

"table-type" is block

what?

its not the same

Yes it is. Stop talking.
left; all of them
all; div after them

vertical-align aint working with displat:block , you ASSHOLE

WTF

mefisto, stop talking.

vertical-align *doesn't* work on *any* block elements

thanks that works, but hypothetically what if I wanted them centred

vertical-align only works on inline elements and table- elements

i started an arguement :V

Then what am I thinking, Nanobot?

Read the spec

BSG, stop talking

is a table-cell element, not a block element

Ah.

so yes.. centred float?

.

RubberDucky132, you'll have to center a wrapper of your floats

lmao

Floats should be wrapped anyway.

line-height: sameasdivheight; is there any way to write this as a variable

ok

or do i need to hardcode the pixel size

No mphill22

http://innonesen.se/test/l-2-txt , RubberDucky132

Also, there's a difference between HTML "block" elements and CSS "block" elements.

ok BSG, thankyou!

CSS isn't a programming language

this is the link http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/demo/kirby/ ; it works fine in O9, recent WebKit, Safari, FF 2, IE 7, but in IE 6 setting min-width or width to 100%, but it's 100% of the width from two other points

In HTML, "block" pretty much means "not in the flow of text" more or less. It's also a way to organize elements in the DTD.
In CSS, "block" is a display type

thank god, because that'd be one sick sort of torture; i'd rather code in befunge than CSS

And some elements that are "block" in html aren't "block" in CSS

]]]table

table http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-html#support-html401-table (IE 6:90.152%) (IE 7:90.152%) (FF 1.5:94.318%) (FF 2:94.318%) (Opera 8.5:92.045%) (Opera 9:92.045%) (Konqueror 3.5: ?) (Safari 2:
?))

]]]display

display http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2propsbasic-display (IE 6:30.556%) (IE 7:30.556%) (FF 1.5:75%) (FF 2:75%) (Opera 8.5:94.444%) (Opera 9:94.444%) (Konqueror 3.5: Y) (Safari 2:
?))

Oh god, rev
You're using tables

well, probably

That layout would be absolutely simple and easy to achieve using CSS

Which are "block" in HTML but not CSS?

And it'd work 10x better

in the interest of disclosure this is something my wife is trying to fix that someone else wrote at her job, i'm just helping with it
i'd be open to anything

rev, you're in duluth?
I'm in duluth.

i'm not the best help because most of my experience is from 1995
no joke!

Yeah!

i am, indeed

for example

I live over by the copper top.

trovster, if i recall display:block aint default type for div

hah, me too, pretty close- i live right below the intersection of skyline and kenwood

maybe im wrong

Wow, I could walk to your house in 5 minutes
Do I know you?

may be the only element that's block in HTML but not in CSS

I'm Brandon St. Germaine

I would have assumed tables, as I haven't looked closely at all those display-types (support'n' all)

3 feet tall, in a wheelchair

display block is default for divs

PMing you

because it is a 'block element'

hrmm, doesn't ring a bell, i'm this guy, but not in LJ-ish sepia http://userpic.livejournal.com/9997185/351199
i went to UMD for a while, still do but just one class at a time these days

What program are you using for irc?
I'm PMing you

No Alpha Channel

you are correct , benlong , i messed it up with position:static

http://projectx.daedeloth.be/images.php
Fix? Donnu.

xchat, you? i didn't get the last PM- have you id'd to nickserv?

bah

yeah, looks like you're not

anyone have a link to the iphone style nav css demo??

daedeloth, page is a mess in opera

really?

all; do BSG?

and, as you are makeing a some kind od web-appe , you could just forget about IE6

http://code.google.com/p/iui/ is the iphone nav

who cares about iphone

both;

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/test.html

@

we were talking about drop down menu navigtion, so iphone nav is somewhat extension of that concept

(spreadhiv.com…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2ot5rf ) | CSS: Valid [3 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/yuflzh ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

all; :O

nevermind i answered my own question

muhahahah

both; do?

RubberDucky132, thats one more reason why you should put him on ignoe

i believe it clears both left and right

it clears both left and right float

It pushes the element down below any nearby floats

damn ,, 2sek

not really sure what that means

If there are floated elements around, giving a div clear:both will shove that div down below the floated elements
Otherwise, the div would be beside the floats

]float tutorial

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/ , http://phrogz.net/css/understandingfloats.html

Ok
naughty thing opened in the same tab!
should be opening in a new tab
oh well

It's a little more complicated than that, because there are float scopes and stuff (called block formatting contexts in CSS), but that's basically the gist of it

Thanks

RubberDucky132 ?

indeed?

hows that , it should be opened in new tab
… or at least its how it works on xchat

the links ZofBot printed
they opened in a tab that had a webpage already open

which irc client you are using ?

chatzilla
doesn't usually happen

then i think you cant fix it

how can you make text bold?

p {font-weight: bold;}

? (I generate ids programmatically in a jsp tag)

ya

that is, an empty string for an id

just dont have more than one instance of the same id on the page

ta

will several "" 's count as duplicate ids?

p

i assume no
why do you have to specify a blank id?

I'm making a jsp servlet hosting tag to display a menu which automatically assign a "current" id to the link item which points to the current page among other things
s/assign/assigns/

gotcha

inside an html tag

nice, im not familiar with jsp
im a rails guy

can you define custom tags in .rhtml?

ya, pretty sure
im relatively new to it

learning rails is on my todo list for a while now

if you know how to program ruby, rails is easy
if you know perl, ruby is not bad

ya, new to ruby

ruby borrows like everything from perl, which is unfortunate at times

no perl, I know python though

rails is likea don't reinvent the wheel thing
dissimilar to php in that regard

i dont know much about perl, but ruby has been fairly easy to learn

also ruby it seems like when you go to forums, people are smart
php I always feel like i'm reading about the struggles of forever newbs

hi

ya, irc has been suuuuch a help with ruby

Dude, if IRC didn't exist I would know Ruby so much more intimately
The api docs don't run the risk of getting sucked into flamewars

im a learn by talking and doing, not by reading

can you center a table with CSS or do I need to use div align?

Do you need a table?

haha

tag only have the height of the content

quite possibly no

and not the size of the visible screen
how can i make the body tag takes the full height of the screen ?

dont use a table

RubberDucky132, tables are for data

unless you have data you need to display

Not for layout or design

screw it BSG I'm going to do what you are implying, wish me luck :3

highfive

We could be a poor-css-crime fighting team
You can be my sidekick, "bitchman"
Don't go divitus on us, though
You don't always need divs, either

span?

You can id and class any element

p, a, ul whatever

is rarely needed

its all kinda a div

i never got span

does internet explorer 6 support div's rollovers?

what is div short for?

depends
division or divider

cool

r1se, no

Divs should really only be used for major areas of the site

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
@

(spreadhiv.com…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/38ebw2 ) | CSS: Valid [7 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/22hh8o ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

r1se, are you talking pseudoclass :hover or Javascript?

]]]:hover

:hover http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2pseudoclasses-hover (IE 6: I)(IE 7: I)(FF 1.5: Y) (FF 2: Y) (Opera 8.5: I)(Opera 9: Y) (Konqueror 3.5: I)(Safari 2: Y))

pseudoclass
thanks for the link

hey guys, http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ , this fucks up in IE but works fine in firefox and dreamweaver
hey guys, a href="http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/"http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips//a , this fucks up in IE but works fine in firefox and dreamweaver
firstly, why is IE so fucking retarded

ive got it working on ie7 and firefox

why this damned element (.iniz) it looks so bad?
http://www.laquarra.it/la-quarra-it/

when did the "tables are not for layout" initiative start?

and just realized it doesnt work on ie6 lol

mphill22, since when dreamweaver is a mainstream web browser ?

- can this be laid out without a table so that everything is aligned?

well it IS wysiwyg. they try to stay true to that lol

besides , DW sould be called DreamReaver instead

no

my point being is the problem lies in IE and i dunno what it is, halp

There's a good form tutorial on listapart

so in order to acheive a rollover effect to a div, in ie6 i shouldnt use divs? or maybe js?

um, what?

thought so

About 2.5 years ago.

and BSG , in ALA aint even one flawless tutorial

cool

they all are buggy of filled with hacks

Thorn, please ignore mefisto. He's biased against hacks.

found the tutorial, looks promsing, thanks

hmmm

cssplay also has a good tutorial

r1se, use js , it will save you time and effort

Might want to crossreference in case mefisto's opinion has weight
WHICH IS DOESN'T

]hacks

http://xrl.us/riyq http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssHack http://w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/summary/

I'm fine with a hack that won't be depricated
such as condicons

do you have a link where i can read about a nice js rollover effect?

noone knows what the fuck is going on on my site? http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ (look at it in IE vs firefox)

i can take a look in bookmarks , but its usually very simple

can height be a %? and if so why does my div set to 900px x 100% not show but 900px x 100px does?

ie7 views it fine, mphill22

I hate js rollover effects… there is this one site here where you rollover the menu and it does a js dropdown menu that first rolls out three blank buttons, stalls a second, and then fades in the words

RubberDucky132, you need to learn how divs work
for example, not like a table

paotzu, that it must be done by some newbie

Yes i do

it's confusing at first, but pretty simple

divs are 100% width by default

aren't 99% of websites done by some newbie

until you set a width

i don't think 99%

100% height doesn't really work

not really, most of web pages are old

but it depends on how you define newb

what should I use instead?

Well, you shouldn't need anything to be 100% height
that's what background is for
100% of contained element, perhaps
but that doesn't work either

http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/
this works
i see no problems
it has 100% height

mefisto, what kind of link can we give RubberDucky132 for his first div tutorial?

what I want BSG is a white bar down the middle for content with darker bars left and right

um
2 column layout with a border in the middle?

so I set the darker colour to be the background

RubberDucky132, so you havent openend my url
am i right ?

sorry missed it
i was on the phones

I hate when I get more than one phone call at a time

]layout

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts , http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/ , http://glish.com/css/ , http://bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ , http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/

RubberDucky132, http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/

im looking now

also look at what I just popped

could you drop me a msg if you find something out? thanks!

oh .. forgot about you
uno momento r1se
do you have some basic skills in JS
?

yup
sorta
i made this a little time ago www.faunadiseno.com
its basic stuff though

but that basic is an object oriented

right

.. which is really good

thank you for the help guys
you're very kind

so , in short , you need to get a collection of DIV you want to react on hover

and a little function that works with onmouseover and it should do?

and then lopp through that list by adding actions div_mas_with_some_classname[i] = function onclick(){ this.style.background = red" ; }
you souldn be putting any JS code in html side
you can attach behaviours when page is loaded

great thanks for the help, im going to buy some food and start working on this !
bbl!

you can use some of this code , r1se , http://innonesen.se/test/l-13/
shame i dont have any larger scripts in examples
=/

ill take a look at the code thanks again!

My footer appears off center when the page is scaled, can someone help? http://zentatsu.com/bsg/

if I set #footer to 1050px, the corners are okay but the curve is off
If I set it to 1047px, the lines are on but the edges are off
might need to redo that graphic
def won't work at 750px
unless it gets put inside the 1050px div
and auto margins from those bounds

it's not the width that's a problem
It's that it isn't consistant no matter how you scale it
I need to lock it into place with the background locking, too
The graphic is exactly what it's supposed to be.
It just needs to stay in the right place

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
how do i grow the navbar if the editable region gets larger than the default navbar height?
rather how do i lock the navbar div to either the default height, or the height of the editable region if it is greater than the default

Mr. Zoffix, sir: I believe ZofBot should know about http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59

So, anyone got any ideas for my footer
?

set it to width 1047px, see how the graphics is off

I already explained this to you

but that lines up a little better

The width of the element has nothing to do with it
It's the fact that it shifts with the scaling of the page

well, when I changed it in firefox that works
er firebug

No, it doesn't
Scale the window
Even with your "fix" the window scaled still breaks it

sigh
1050px
scale window, it is still aligned
but you still need to fix the graphic

-_-

anyone have any ideas for em
*me

@http://wjbr.com/index.php?page=0

(wjbr.com/inde…) HTML: Failed (32 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/3ya4um ) | CSS: Failed (1 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/yvvxof ) [65 warnings] | DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1)

So why does that work, paotzu?

the div above it is set to 1050px
div#wrapper line 50, width: 1050px

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ i need the floating navbar height to change based on the height of editable content.. does anyone have any ideas or where i should look?

paotzu, that works
But it becomes offset at certain sizes
By a pixel
paotzu?

anyone know how I can take advantage of webkit for my safari users?
i'm having a hard time understanding the concept

Hi there. I do not understand why validator complaines on this: http://mkm-online.homelinux.org/linux.php. I also do not know, why the generated content is not treated as the rest of box. Could you please take a look?

i have an issue with IE (6 AND 7) where i get an unexplainable 'gap' between the border of a container and an element nested inside of it. however, it only happens when the content in my main column is 'shorter' than the content in my sidebar (equal height columns).
http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html vs http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-long.html
can someone *please* take a quick look and help me a little? i'm totally stuck

I have a div that has a right-margin of 2px and bottom-margin of 8px. However in IE 5.5, the right-margin becomes 8px, any ideas on how I might fix this? The divs are all floated left and displayed inline

(and of course everything looks fine in both firefox and safari…)

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/
Flannel, can you PLEASE help me figure this out?

whattup

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/
div#bottombg doesn't behave when scaled
it shifts around
I'm open to any solution that puts the rounded bottom securely underneith the body

how does that graphic no rasterize?
not
hm, i see it shift
by only a few pixels though, right?

mhmm

u sure ur graphic isnt just off?

No, I'm certain
And even if it were off, that means it'd be nudged the opposite direction if I "fixed" it

it looks off, cuz the corner meets the side fine…
i cant find anything in the css though

can someone please just take a quick look for me, see if anything strikes them?

yo
whats the deal

Mr. Zoffix, sir: I believe ZofBot should know about http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59" FYI it did even last year

oh, I must have missed it then

]clear @ Ace_NoOne

Contain floats: http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59 , www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

we need those aliases

wpw, keaneangle
wow
I was percentage placing the background stripes

ha

So of course they were nudging with the scale of the window
-_-

didnt see that

I literally spent 2 days trying to fix such a stupid, simple thing

that sucks…

http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html vs http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-long.html

Because I was focusing on the footer, not the whole page

i have an issue with IE (6 AND 7) where i get an unexplainable 'gap' between the border of a container and an element nested inside of it. however, it only happens when the content in my main column is 'shorter' than the content in my sidebar (equal height columns).

ohhhh so the bottom was fine, it was the repeat stripes that gotcha
ha

yeah
because they were a percentage, odd numbers made it nudge a pixel

yup yup

any clue when you will implement them aliases?

dur
Now I'm going to rewrite the whole thing so that it's a little more semantic than negative margins
-_-

Ace_NoOne, no.

cant help you with ie6 and 7, im on a mac, and it takes a considerable effort for me to get over to ie, dont have paralells yet

the problem is probably more cleaning up the db after it's implemented, right Zoffix ?

Ace_NoOne, nah
regexens
@http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html

ya, boo to neg margins, clogs ur css pores

well thanks anyway. also on a mac here.

how so

eh?

(www.zerosum.o…) HTML: Failed (1 error, see http://tinyurl.com/2z2b9s ) | CSS: Valid [12 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/ytdfok ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html)

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/

kk, will check

do you have os 10.4

yep

intel core duo?
got a new bug now
ur stripes are all the way to the left now

wha?
what browser?
reload one more time

ff 2 os x

that's really really odd
Can you take a screen capture

zapnap, so is the "footer" bit supposed to be red? Are you using red anywhere there at all?

Because it's not doing anything like that for me

sorry im watching an episode of 24, but had web dev toolbar and my ff just threw up
hang on

bah, ie is still nudging it

the #main area is just set to red so i could see what element was causing the gap
the issue is the gap
only when viewed in IE6/7
note that the test-long.html file doesn't show the gap because the main content area's 'height' is greater than the sidebar (Actual height not the equal column visible height). otoh, the test-short.html variant the gap is visible but only in IE6 and 7

capture in 10 sec.

the 'footer' is really just a faux footer i put in there to see where the #main area ended

http://www.qream.com/bsg.tiff

zapnap, don't really understand what you mean. Try {zoom:1;} or {overflow: hidden;} on wherever that gap is.
]z hl @ zapnap

IE hasLayout: http://haslayout.net/haslayout.shtml

]z ie extraheight @ zapnap

IE Extra Height Bug: http://haslayout.net/css/extraheight.shtml

what?
That doesn't even make sense, keaneangle

if i use overflow: hidden it'll "hide" the borders that i have set to a negative left value

its ok now
weird…

if you're looking at it in IE6/7 you'll see a 3px (or so) gap between teh border of the main content area and the inner div

Yeah, I had to replace the bg image

(inner left)

Absolutely sure it's good now, keaneangle?

ya
did u change anything?

zapnap, I see gaps everywhere (title for example) IE got this red thing. Make a screen shot or something of what it is supposed to be

if you look at test-long.html that looks the way it's supposed to
or if you view any of the above in safari

No, you just loaded at the wrong time, keaneangle

gotcha

the blue background area with the border underneath should extend all the way to the left border of the main content box to form a sort of 'title box' (#page-title)
in test-short.html it doesn't. there's a 3px gap (or so) visible only in MSIE 6 AND 7

zapnap, with "Page title"?

yes

zapnap, #page-title{margin-left: -3px;}

are you using any program like…front page to make it?

i've tried that, but will try it again.
no way

kk

zapnap, the problem steams from the fact that you have WAY too many divs. I don't understand why you couldn't just use the `border` property

it's because i'm trying to do the css drop shadow thing
(sans images)

why

setting padding-left on #page-title doesn't make any difference

zapnap, I've said margin

oop my bad one sec
ok that does seem to be doing it Zoffix. but why do i have the gap in the first place?
(guess i must have tried padding instead, totally my goof)

zapnap, too many divs
zapnap, and I still don't understand why you have so many divs there. What you got there I can do with 3 divs… not 19

soo…. n+1 divs and IE blows up? :p

zapnap, pretty much

yup

+floats

no idea how you'd do this in 3 divs

zapnap, heh, ok.. 4 divs ~

but, i'm admittedly not the css pro you are
well

zapnap, wanna see? (I won't do the footer)

well, simplicity is beauty when it comes to web design and css

also, keep in mind, this is code i've pulled out of a more complex layout to illustrate the issue
a layout with a main nav area, a more complex footer, a top header bar with some stuff in it, etc

so if its only gonna get more complex, dont make it worse, ha

so a lot of what you see are relics from that
i've just omitted some of the nested pieces. the structure is there for a reason.

i still dont understand why you dont use images
images dont have to be big bulky things

it may not be the cleanest ever but doing equal height columns plus div shadows plus liquid center can't be done in 4 divs :/
sure, point taken.

99% of my images i use are 1px thin and i just repeat them as background images

sure… me too. but when i don't have to use images i don't use images.
i didn't just start playing with frontpage this morning :p
but i'm no frontend engineer css guru either.

zapnap, one sec

sure man. i appreciate the tips.

ya, i didnt think you did haha, but i still dont understand why u dont use images

i'm still not sold that a -6 px margin is the solution though. cuz the thing is, if you look at the long version, it's the same layout.. just more text in the main content area. and that doesn't exhibit the problem. so when i apply the negative margin to that, it's giong to be off
load the short then the long and then back-button between the two… you'll note that the content area itself shifts

is there a good place to learn about columns?

down with those divs man

Any ideas about this one? http://pastebin.com/d75ff7743 I need an object with padding, but for some reason it changes the margin on the other side of the page (try the onclicks)

alistapart.com, but what about them do you want to learn?

i think the root of my issue is the way i'm doing equal height columns. because the main column behavior varies with the height of the sidebar relative to the main content area

i want to list data in them from a table
i think i want two columns and i want them to be even

just google css column tutorial
theres a bunch

and btw, it's off by 6px not 3. 6 being the number i'm shifting the table for the dropshadow effect.

so maybe it would be items A-F and G-Z but it would all depend on the amount of data between those letters
i might have to code
thanks

working thing
?
like a live site…pasting is only kinda necessary for scripting
server side i mean

any easy places to post?
the problem is only in IE, I forgot to mention that

cant help you there
im on a mac, no parallels either
zoffix might

Well how about this? http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d75ff7743

cpastebin is evil

ya it is
pastie.caboo.se/

why is pastebin evil?

]paste

http://paste.css-standards.org , http://www.webdevout.net/test , http://erxz.com/pb/ , http://sial.org/pbot/ , http://tnx.nl/scribble.plp , Upload images: http://oxihosting.com/pupload/

because you cant view the resault of your html

plus the clutter….oohhhh the clutter!

zapnap, I am almost done

i appreciate it. thanks.
no rush

zapnap, http://www.zoffix.com/new/main-side-and-drop-shadows.html

http://pastie.caboo.se/85378

very clean, nice.
and many thanks

Any ideas for fixing this in IE?

nope sorry, cant view it in ie, zoffix?

next time you're in the boston area i owe you a beer

tag

is there any way to produce similar results for an a tag?

bassinboy, no, it's just it's inline-level
bassinboy, what are you trying to archive?
]html wording @ bassinboy

A tag defines an ELEMENT

]css wording

selector{property: value;} The selector may also contain "pseudo-classes and "pseudo-elements".

thank you

is there an alternative to text-align: -moz-center? or will you guys help with my problem if that's my only invalidation error?

think of eveyrthing as its own div
you can control everypart of it

I have padding on my a tags and that causes the entire inline-level element to expand, and overlap any nearby elements. I was wondering how I would use css to separate them. (besides using display:block)

ya, stay away from mozilla specific tags
get it right for ff first, then debug in ie

i'll just delete that line for now, doesn't affect my problem if it's centered or not.

rhiza, what kind of centering you need ?

bassinboy, what are those
bassinboy, what are those as? Never needed a margin on as, sound like your semantics are off.
Should be in ul

agreed with zoffix

http://www.rhizaowns.com/example/index.html - I'm trying to extend the canvas if the text is longer than the header image.
http://www.rhizaowns.com/example/index2.html
I have a 1px high image that matches the background, but it overlays the side image, etc.

how do you make columns like this where they are fairly even although the length may change based on the amount of data in the table?
http://www.techcrunch.com/company-index/

http://pastebin.com/m2d9b4cac

so you want the layout to be liquid and adjust to the text?

yes
see also http://www.rhizaowns.com/example/index3.html

go to http://www.w3schools.com/css/tryit.asp?filename=trycss_margin-bottom and paste the html

and how the repeating image overlays the top image

man, I'm really starting to enjoy this Purisa font for coding ~

and then blelow the bottom of index3 u would like another web hosting for online images that completes the page?

right

like on index1?

http://www.zoffix.com/new/del/ss65.png http://www.zoffix.com/new/del/ss66.png hehe

what program is that Zoffix?

off tangent, that's a pretty exciting programming font.

HA!
thats nuts

any way i can supress # marks when copy/pasting from an ordered list?

bassinboy, KDevelop, but I have that font in Quanta too ~
bnjmn, no

Oh ok, I haven't used kdev in about 4 years
I use visual studio for work now, hehe

your widths could be percents

no wai

bnjmn, /msg me if you find a way.

that's not going to affect anything though, I don't think

but is your problem on index3? why isn #footer showing up?

heh ok Zoffix

well, I need to keep the a tags inline-level… but I need to be able to specify some kind of margin

i think i temporarily positioned it relatively so it'd show up how i wanted it to in index1

bassinboy, your code is invalid. Put in HTML 4.01 Strict doctype. Then use a list for your links, float the lis and set whatever margin you want on them.

er, I guess I didn't

bassinboy

that's just another problem if #layover has a background image

there are more simple ways to achieve what you want

please advise

well is this going to be all of what youre doing in the layout? is there going to be a menu? a side bar? what else? that all goes into the css

just a sec.

rhiza, do you use photoshop?

keaneangle, why should it matter ?

it a lifesaver for planning the overall design of websites

i do
http://www.rhizaowns.com/common/header.php?body=some%20text&font=17
this is really old, pardon the ugly code
i'm trying to start over with basically the same layout

]webfonts
]webfont
damn

I was just playing around with php and image rendering

mm
mhm

+ two notes :
use strict doctype
use utf-8

haha ok, the only reason I pasted that is to show keaneangle how I'm wanting the layout to look.

mkey
but that aint changing the advice

ok, so you want to slice tat bottom part right?

yes

i guess the bottom div could have a negative top margin of like…30px or something, that will cause the top to bump down.
as for the rest

http://http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/
in tyhis case #foot is yout bottom div
or
you can just set a background
an position it at the bottom

slice it like a header/subheader/countainer/right menu/footer
yup

JDiggity ?

DEF a background

can you elaborate guys? how is that going to extend the slice?

i would suggest a bit different layout

i like my layout haha

how would you slice it?

for slicing
hmm .. i change my mind , keaneangle

woo

only change i would have , is
there is no need for header and subheader
… no

…
hang on

.. thinking .. writing .. thinkging for a moment more
layoutlogin/sidecontentfoot//layout
that would be my layout
header hoes as background of div#layout
*goes
everythin else imo is quite evident

hi

mawanna,, sup

am trying to produce some nice readable text with css, with a san-serif font that is cross browser compatible
choosing the default fonts look rubbish

sans-serif looks different in each OS

I have no idea how to implement what you're talking about

anything you can recommend
ill drop the san-serif idea

do I need to slice the images differently?

jus some nice readable text apart from Arial, times new roman

im writing a css thing

arial looks like shit

hang on

the text looks too dull

times gets ugly on NIX's
i usually stay with sans-serif or verdana

apart from the crappy looking text, in IE6 i havea small 1px or 2px gap below my image, driving me mad i cant figure it out
verdana ive used alot lately
guess ill stick with it n play with the width

there aint a 'best font'

most appropriate
i produced a example for my site in photoshop
using Palatino Linotype
looks very nice

heh
sure

but i cant use the images for paragraphs its jus not right

you can manipulate leetter spacing

small gap below my header image and links, common ie prob?

maybe it helps … a bit

got 2px letter spacing and 3px word spacing

aint a bit too wide ?

back to 1px letter spacing

sure it should be an img and not a background-iamge ?
image*

its the header image

's'a yes or no question

i hopeso yes

any ajax guru around ?

there is no change on my font weight from 300 to 500 :s

not in IE6

wrong channel :p
]imgap @ MaWanna

imgap: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Images%2C_Tables%2C_and_Mysterious_Gaps

reisio, thats the problem , my problem is mix of xsl/xhr/js/html
and i can get an answer anywhere

don't see CSS in there :p

ta

sure you can

i think my last hope is #xml

if it's a js problem, go to ##javascript

didnt got any answer there
at least , not a usefull

http://pastie.caboo.se/85402

so I should split the image into smaller sections?

oh yes.
much smaller
large images = the devil

eh?

ok
thanks - this code you wrote won't let me put text over the swirly thing on the left though, will it?
since the main text is going to be in a separate div.

gap below my image :s

image is 109px tall my DIV is height is set to 109px

2px space below my header image

url ?

i really need my bravenet hosting sorted
am back to scratch on a new page
hoping this would work better this time round
gonna have to give in on this css for 2nite
fresher tomorrow
cya people

Could someone tell me why the Div called "endlink" looks right in FF but not IE7?: http://localhost/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

$

Failed to reach http://localhost/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

$

=/
i am such a fool lol

yes

http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

$

text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

but not the first

haha
IE7 seems to ignore the zindex and just plonk the div at the end of the line one "Link"s
of*

using both position: absolute; and float: left; is usually a bad sign
luckily the entirety of your menu code should be scrapped :p
]listamatic @ RubberDucky132

listamatic: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

it doesn't make a difference with or without
*sniff*
I'll have a looksie
is everything else ok though?
not that there is much else

heh
should be fine, yeah

Hi, I tried setting display:inline on an ul
but this didnt seem to get in herited by the list items
am I supposed to only set it on the list items?

basically

I changed to my favourite on that page, theres a small problem though between IE7 / FF2, have a look for yourself

no, describe it :p

k
basically in FF theres a gap between the heading and the list
in IE7 there isnt

what element is 'the heading'?

padding / margin set to 0px everywhere i can think of
a box with a 200×200px image hosting with a height of 200
(px)

you've only done padding/margin-_left_ for the ul

lol fixed
It's so obvious I've got "the skills" :/

is rhiza still around?

wouldn't matter if all browsers followed the fucking specs
you still around?

wait, why wouldnt it matter if all browsers followed standards?

if they all followed the standard, they'd apply the same margin and padding to ul by default
and RubberDucky132 would've seen the same thing in both browsers

i came in late to the convo and im too lazy to read it, so nvm, hah

its so annoying I know reisio

well ya…
why would it be easy? its microsoft!
heh

i mean there aren't many other platforms where you have to go "ok thats great, but have you tested it on five different things?"
its not really
no browser follows the guidelines to the book
except maybe opera 9?

no, but theyre pretty friggin close
NOTHING compared to IE

no Opera is pretty nefarious

haha
makes you wonder what the point in standards is
apart from ActiveX I didn't think IE was that bad?

well they are "guidelines"
oh its horrible

Hum. Anyone know how to do those "bookmark me" links?

javascript?

I was hoping for a more specific answer

ha
google bookmark javascript host tutorial

can't do that cross-browser

What browsers will it work in? Only IE?

even your average stupid vagina knows how to bookmark
they'll bookmark your page if they want to

oooh it's starting to come together reisio (please have a look)

http://www.hypergurl.com/bookmark.html

yeah nice

agree completely with reiso
reisio

instead of div class="header", you could just use an 'h1' element
maybe with some hidden _text_
]ir @ RubberDucky132

ir: www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/

now that should be a standard
heheh

whats the text for? if the image wont load?

the image has text in it
the text is so the text exists :p

ah so is that CSS's equivalent of "alternative" ?

image replacement?
sort of
look at your page with css disabled

Page Style (in Firefox)

it's just a list of nav links
now if you had text in an h1
it'd have a title/heading
and a list of nav links
as it should

have you read that alistapart article about symantic html?

you can do stuff like style="background-image: url(replacedtext.jpg)" on an h1 and then do h1 { background-repeat: no-repeat; text-indent: -9999px; height:… etc

I've skimmed it
ALA is a joke

hey ala used to be cool

why do you say that?

because it is :p

some of the previous articles were good… hard to place where they hit the wall

yeah a couple are useful
the vast majority are textual masturbation

maybe when they started talking about how to deal with clients and such
and start to realize these guys are just fussy nerds
have stuff like 5 articles about flash without mentioning stuff like ufo

i think its one of the best publications on the internet for design professionals

well, the _design_ of alistapart itself is dope
like the little borders on the menus are sweet
the layout of the "editor's choice" and whatnot… the writing itself it seems like the authors don't do much real work

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/grokwebstandards

what did i do to deserve a link to a wall of text?

sorry?

heh I'm joking

its a good article…made me change my whole perspective on webdesign

*groan* I'm sure it's great, it's just its past midnight here in the UK and my eyes are beggining to bleed

What article?

the grokwebstandards
I find stuff like cssplay more interesting

neat

well…i find a little extensive reading now and again really really useful
for simple design stuff i google specific articles that are incredibly concise.

that komodo site has a bunch of good stuff

Is the CSS Spec at w3.org anything more than just reference material?

then i hit up like stylegala and webcreme for inspiration

well, like 4 good things
it's an illusion

i find a program like apatana is awaesome for learning css
not good design skills…just the raw language

I'll look into that.

it has code assist/complete
so you can view all the css selectors or whatever

Nice that it comes in OS X flavor.

Well, I must say, if CSS were a woman, I'd attempt to date her and get badly rejected!
By this I mean, I love CSS :3

lol, I just wish IE would crumble and die

Don't suppose it supports PHP…

probably

what's wrong with ie

the way it renders pages

anyone here use the fonts.css from YUI?
i wonder how to properly set font sizes on nested elements

A website looks like X in Opera, Firefox, Camino, Safari, mostly all browsers

are you serious?

you go to IE and it looks nothing like X
looks more like Y

when parent element has font-size 127% .. how do i set the font-size to, say, 82% (but 82% of the initial, not of the parent)

IE == fail

yep

use a condcom if lte ie 6 link href="y.css"

..on the child

someone shouldn't have to do that

hey all… I'm having trouble getting my links at a set width/height… I'm using CSS to declare the width & height, as I'm doing a background hover effect.

it's ridiculous

how can i remove the border on a select menu in internet explorer

the hover is working, but the width/height/ and text-align are not working…

it's more ridiculous to suppose an old piece of software will magically upgrade

any ideas? http://erxz.com/pb/paste

i added a 1px white border and it just adds it around it

0;
wait
why do you want to remove the border?

that is the most brilliant thing i've ever read (looks like Y not X)

Okay, but we're not hoping IE will upgrade. Of course, our hope that it dies isn't really realistic…

I can just image someone saying it

that doesnt do it

"…dear…dear God!! That looks nothing like X… it's more… more like Y!!" *covers eyes*

because I want to have another border..

According to Net Applications, IE usage *increased* by 1 percentage point in the last two months

haha

Not that I'd trust its measurements to 1 percentage point accuracy, especially with IE which is so popularly mimicked by spam bots and such..

what can I say, I must be either a big idiot or a remarkably genial person

"at least it doesn't look like Z" … "we said we'd never speak of Z again"

everyone who knows anything already uses something besides ie

haha

the people who don't know anything about web browsers percentage will never change
I mean, some people still lease phones…

Even Chris Wilson, the lead IE developer since IE 4, doesn't use IE for casual browsing
He uses Safari

it doesnt want to go away

people still use dial up

My dad still uses dial-up

lol
dial up gives me the creeps

If Steve is right in his keynote speech at WWDC, less than 25% of people who use the internet know anything.

but I still remember when I upgraded from 28.8k to 56k
it seemed wonderful

My dad was like, "I'm paying for 56k, so why does it still say I'm downloading at 7k?"

Because you can't do math.

That's the real reason they measure it in kilobits per second

It's really only about 5 kilobytes.

yeah they've always done that

old modems had fairly good compression (v42bis, mnp5), so 6kb/s was possible on good lines

don't forget the overhead of a pcm encoded packet and whatnot, really 33.6 is the max, 56k is just compressed… or do I remember that class wrong