vectorT( a, a+N ); }

perfectly safe

that's only applicable to vectors

no it isn't

the same thing works perfectly for other containers as well

most containers have range ctors

I think he wants to go from a container to a staicly sized array…

Perhaps Bigcheese is advocating against using any near-containers at all.

C as_container(T const (&a)[N]) { return C( a, a+N ); }

C as_container(T const (&a)[N]) { return C( a, a+N ); }"

By your command.

yeah, you just need to write one per container

zeeeee, never heard of templates?

not with that

(a);

that's just one operation; the safe lib replaces a number of others

none of which are at all necessary unless you're doing things in dumb ways to begin with

which _ALL_ have to do with staticly sized raw arrays
which is dumb in a lot of cases

if you need speed, you don't want the checking that the _s functions do. If you don't, you should be using std

yum does work for FC4,

atrpms not atrpm

I did something to it before to cause this I recall

I might have fixed it.

there is absolutely, positively NO SUPPORT for fc4

mr700, because installing things by hand can really mess up dependecies etc with yum

VESA and i used the detected monitor

how will this happen?
if you don't use –force and –nodeps?

god damn that's even WORSE
don't EVER do that
the problem is hand-downloaded rpms MAY require further deps you don't also have downloaded
better to fix yum

mr700, well it happens if you are trying to install an rpm you have already installed, then it messes with yums logs cause it might try to install it even tho you already have it installed

[root@localhost yum.repos.d]# ls
ATrpms.repo fedora-extras-devel.repo fedora.repo fedora-updates-testing.repo livna.back livna.repo
fedora-devel.repo fedora-extras.repo fedora-updates.repo jpackage.repo livna-devel.repo livna-testing.rep

yeah

rpm WILL NOT BREAK dependancies

Wow, sorry about that large paste here

always better to fix yum

that's from my directory

that is NOT what I said

STOP, we're not helping you

:-)

opsec, WebDragon is being nice and helping me, so thanks.

grep '\[' /etc/yum.repos.d/ATrpms.repo

rpm will not install 2 times given package unless you force it, no way to break anything (unless you want to)

what you and he don't seem to realize is that you will not solve your issue

#[ATrpms]
[ATrpms]

fc4 is dead .. there ARE NO REPOS for it

dang… this neat flip-screen cube desktop effect doesn't change the bg until you have settled on the desktop for a second

opsec, enough please

What is the div between Fedora ( fc7xen ) and fedora base ( fc7 )?

32mb in ram

I need a 16mb option

ok (yum –disablerepo=ATrpms install dd_rescue) — exactly this

there are, I can point you to some. They ARE NOT updated, but there still are…

jpackage-fc
Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: jpackage-fc

so each workspace has a different bg, but the flip sceen cube shows the same face

livna 100% |=========================| 951 B 00:00
That's it

help you look?

just because they're no longer updated doesn't mean they stopped existing at the last place they left off

maybe livna got it?
WebDragon, very astute observation

yeah, thanks! ;

So true

ok (yum –disablerepo=ATrpms –disablerepo=jpackage-fc install dd_rescue) — exactly this

god damn morons

What is the div between Fedora ( fc7xen ) and fedora base ( fc7 )?

wait….you wanna run mysql on 16 megs of ram??…
wait….you wanna run php mysql web hosting on 16 megs of ram??…

Stuff is working here I think…

i'm gonna try

it would be way cooler if each desktop had its bg set before the cube flipped

you're a brave soul…….

walterwoj, do uname -r in both

one note on ATrpms.. i refuse to use it.. it's unsafe

dd_rescue

I could use some other db and samba

xen is for virtualization .. you don't want that kernel

and yeah, for future reference, ryanoe, avoid atrpms

it broke my machine at work one time… axel thought he should recompile a bunch of the X packages

So perhaps I have the wrong repo there

ok

WebDragon, it's now disabled so that's good then right? I won't use it

yuggy, /join #compiz-fusion compiz-fusion comes for fedora7

it may not be available for you in FC4

and he puts CPAN stuff into .rpm's and marks them as deps

openbysource, ty

you do realize that dd_rescue was never even built for FC4..

I am loving this effect!

or there's no dd_rescue for FC4…

that's a temporary disable not a permanent one — you'd have to set enabled=0 within the .repo file for the ones you want turned off

exit

I do now, that he's been unable to install it with a working yum

you can still rebuild it for FC4… but that's a tiny bit harder

Turned it off permanently now

thanks dudes

sorry, came in very very late here actually. what do you need to do? I kind of "specialise" in lower spec systems (needing to revive a lot of older systems that can't necessarily be upgraded due to cost, but still need to be modern)

WebDragon, what do you suggest I do quickly here?

you *might* be able to rpmbuild a more recent src.rpm for dd_rescue on FC4 but don't count on it

Add dd_rhelp to PATH or rebuild a src rpm?
where should I get that do you suggest?

I need to get a 486 running so we can use it at an ORG for db purposes… simple things

not sure which version of FC first started with it
but I'd definitely track down an SRPM built for a fedora release

http://dag.wieers.com/rpm/packages/dd_rescue/

I'm planning on developing either on php or OOoDB… you know, inventory and stuff

ha… it's not working dag has broken

dag has it?
doh
hang on a sec

the other PCs are in good shape

wow, really broken

There is nothing in there
Did you look in there?

no kidding
yeah just now

yea

anyway.. half a mo

Maybe another location would be better

w8 a sec

Sure
Does one of you run dag.wiers?

i didnt think dag had fedora packages any longer

How about here

http://ftp.iasi.roedu.net/mirrors/fedora.redhat.com/linux/extras/6/SRPMS/

I would try http://ftp.riken.go.jp/pub/Linux/dag/packages/dd_rescue/dd_rescue-1.11-1.1.fc3.rf.i386.rpm … If it installs fine (rpm -Uhv dd_resc……) and works - it's ok

you MAY need additional deps in order to build it

I found an FC4 src rpm here

I can't say for sure whether it requires later versions of gcc and whatever in order to build with rpmbuild; depends on what's in the spec file

http://dries.ylyssis.org/rpm/packages/dd_rescue/info.html

fc4 geez

dd_rescue needs almost nothing… glibc

Check it out

the url I gave you is from a fedora-specific mirror OF fedora itself

Downloaded it and it's a go

i'd trust that first before anything
then all you need to do is rpmbuild -rebuild dd_rescue*src.rpm

So try the FC src rpm?

yep, try building it - if it works that's the best way…

[root@localhost emger]# rpmbuild -rebuild dd_rescue-1.12-6.fc6.src.rpm
arguments to –root (-r) must begin with a

before anything else I'd try the one that actually was designed for one of the released versions of Fedora — 6 in this case
maybe it's –rebuild
my bad — been a while since I used rpmbuild

Tada! I'm loggedin to my fedara install!!!!
It's a mricle. Thank Opsec

It's doing something now
…

if it builds successfully you'll find the finished package somewhere in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/

dd_rescue-1.12-6.fc7.i386.rp
oh okay

then you can rpm -ivh it
and THEN you'll have a really working one

ok… in FC5 i had to call udevstart in my rc.local to trigger my custom udev scripts to hit the devices (since i had to modprobe them) … udevstart no longer exists… what should i be calling

and THEN you can stop using the one in your $HOME

yum localinstall dd_rescue-1.12-6.i386.rpm
There we go

and pray it works the rest of the way
good luck ryanoe

dd_rescue.i386 0:1.12-6
Complete!

disk recovery is always a voodoo art

I know..

true

don't forget to wave a rubber chicken over the motherboard before you start

I desperately need to recover this stuff

(:

I was only copying files into it when it just disappeared
nothing bad happened, and I rarely access these two drives
/dev/sda1 111G 93M 105G 1% /mnt/backup1
/dev/sdb1 111G 102G 3.2G 98% /mnt/backup
/dev/sdb1 111G 102G 3.2G 98% /mnt/backup
b/dev/sdb1 111G 102G 3.2G 98% /mnt/backup/b
the 98% is the questionable one that needs to be restored onto the other
the 98% is the questionable one that needs to be restored onto the other
Now I can try dd_rhelp right?

right.. the REAL dd_rhelp

sorry
hehe

;-) but I really enjoy .flac

localhost i386]# dd_rhelp /dev/sdb1 /dev/sda1 rescue.lo
Trying it now
It's doing it's thing

good luck bro

I'm also enjoying my .APE files

how you been otherwise? been a while since I talked with you last

I don't know why most of you guys are totallying snickering at me for FC4, so it's older

well, it's not seen a security patch in ages

I have been alright actually, just left a job about 2 weeks ago

no updates and no support for over a year

they recently end-of-lifed FC5 as well

kind of jerks..
I know

I gotta tellya, FC7 is luscious

It's just, to upgrade still, you basically need to reformat and reinstall each time which is a PITA

put it on my laptop
I've done upgrade-installs from FC1 through FC5 and not had a problem
never hadda reformat

Really?
That's good

really
heck I even upgrade-installed TO FC1 from RHL 9

ech… it has some rough edges, but it's better than anything else
bech… it has some rough edges, but it's better than anything else /b

agreed

I hope this all works out, I guess with dd_rhelp, it's supposed to only copy the good stuff that means it should be accessible
uI hope this all works out, I guess with dd_rhelp, it's supposed to only copy the good stuff that means it should be accessible/u
I hope that the stuff I was copying is the only corrupted stuff

the only part you trip on is where F7 comes in due to the libata changes

not the stuff that was on the drive
Libata changes?
What are drawbacks from FC7?

yeah, /dev/hd* is no more — it's been replaced with /dev/sd* even if not a scsi drive

Really?

really

yep

check the F7 release notes

What was the link for the NTFS readwrite support?

even an internal one that is IDE?

yes

fedorasolved.org

My new laptop that I am using now is a Dell Precision M65 with an internal sata drive

should be no problem

sata is sdx anyways

old laptop that has linux (P4M 1.0 Ghz ram) has FC4 on it with an IDE drive

wireless is the only thing that MAY trip you up there, but if you're lucky (I was) enabling NetworkManager will fix that without needing madwifi or ndiswrapper

I still need to keep XP SP2 on my new laptop for Autocad
See, I still would need madwifi, has that all been solved now with an integrated nice driver?

a newer lappy with a core2duo that has VT capability will enable you to run the Xen kernel

I remember with FC4 here with madwifi and my wifi card, it was a real PITA

depends on what's now part of the kernel

"Xen" Kernel? Sounds really soothing.

Xen/KVM would let you run windows in a virtual machine
potentially almost as fast as bare metal depending on the circumstances
they've made considerable advances — again, check the release notes for F7

[emger@localhost backup2]$ ls
reading directory .: Input/output error

doh

That's the current error I get
so that's why the need to use dd_rhelp

indeed

dying disk. Or kernel panic.

Kernel panic, has to be
I rarely use these drives, maybe 6 times a year

anyone here written udev rules?

back in a few

both drives are 1 year old

heh….that was a WebDragon panic..

ryanoe, means nothing

I have one or two, why?

So what's funny is that I just repartitioned and reformatted and now the "good" drive shows that input/output error

LOL

so what ?

okay WebDragon
see you back here in a few
I wonder why after starting the dd_rhelp
it now shows input/output directory in the other drive that was blank before I started the dd_rhelp process
I thought that dd_rhelp only copied the "good" data that was readable..
that was my point in using it

when i upgraded from fc5 to fc7 my IVTV related rules stopped working

I guess this input/output status will change when the process completes??

ah, what IVTV is?

do you mean which IVTV version.. or do you not know what IVTV is?

AFAIR there were some changes… maybe some files got renamed

nah… udevtest sees the rules files

no idea what IVTV is

IVTV is drivers for Hauppauage PVR cards
integrated into the kernel in revision 2.6.22

mr700, you your cable tv cable and inject it into your skin

seperate download+compile previous to that

:-)
what's failing?

found it
they renamed DRIVER== DRIVERS==

:-)
udev version 098 and later, right

Anyone here use dd_rhelp and dd_rescue?

I have used it… to rescue a DVD

Here is my question
do you have to ctrl-C the program running in order to see the valid files that it has copied?

you copy files this way? with dd_*
you should copy partitions/disks with it

reading directory .: Input/output error"
[root@localhost i386]# dd_rhelp /dev/sdb1 /dev/sda1

you don't need to format it…

This is the command I am using

ryanoe, dd and dd_rescue don't copy files; they image. wait till it's done

you must copy the image

Oh okay
So it's imaging the drive, ahh

when dd_* is done (or stuck forever)

I will wait until it is done

drive or partition, you decide

mr700, see it won't be stuck forever because I am using dd_rhelp which begins with the "good" data first, unline dd_rescue
which starts with the bad data first

nope… not true
dd_rescue walks the whole media
then retries the bad sectors AFAIK, but that's not important
when the copy is finished reboot
after the reboot use fsck.ext3 -C0 -f /dev/new_partition1
and if you are lucky… there will be some (all) files

nv = open source, nvidia= binary
yes?

if your directory structure is lost…
you will have lots of #123123918273 files in /lost+found
and… you'll have to guess what is what…
got the picture?
yep, nv = open, nvidia = closed

kk
upgrade reverted me to nv

livna will catch up in a day or two…

they already have
i upgraded from fc5 to fc7

really?

i added livna before i yum updated

Wait, you want me to format the drive once the imaging is done?
Won't that remove the image??

the updated stuff is in there already

whatever you do, don't try to write to your original partition / disk… you can always try another approach…
no

I've never heard of doing that
I thought I could mount the image

just to reboot in order to make sure your kernel knows about your partitions… not sure if it is needed in case you copy partitions

Just reboot, no need to format then?

no
you need a new partition with the size the old one had
that's all, no formating is needed at all
you can even copy the old partition to a file and loop-mount it
dd if=/dev/fd0 of=fd0.img; mkdir fddmp; mount -o loop fd0.img fddmp; ls fddmp

hmm

Why would a yum update not update to the latest (2.6.22) kernel, but rather choose the 2.6.20?

what kernel are you using? xen?

cause you have exclude=kernel in your configs

kmod mess ?

or that ^ (SG's suggestion)

frozty_sa, it's all stock fc6
Southern_Gentlem, which config? Some yum config?

oh. fc6..

Boy this is going to take a while on a 120GB drive I take it

Southern_Gentlem, but it upgraded from 2.6.18 to 2.6.20?
Southern_Gentlem, so it's clearly not exlcuded, it just picked the slightly older kernel

I would be mounting the source drive right, where the "good" data is being sent to?

GmLB, yum -d 0 list kernel
GmLB, uname -r
GmLB, uname -a

Southern_Gentlem, well uname -a returned 2.6.20 after I did a yum update
Southern_Gentlem, ergo me asking why it didn't pick 2.6.22

GmLB, paste the result
you can cut the hostinfo

Southern_Gentlem, well I just reloaded the box to stock to test this again, so it's back at 2.6.18
Southern_Gentlem, "Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6"

GmLB, yum -d 0 list
GmLB, yum -d 0 list kernel
the secoiond one

Southern_Gentlem, sure, 1sec

haha our puppy just SAT on our kittens' head!

but did it squash its little head (in his best web hosting twitty bird voice)
Kazan, smart pup it knows that cats are drain bamaged

lol

Southern_Gentlem, it shows 2.6.18 as installed and 2.6.22 available in updates…
Southern_Gentlem, so perhaps all is well now- but what would have made it not find it before? Could a mirror be out of sync?
Southern_Gentlem, 2.6.22 was just released on the 8th I think

GmLB, when we ask for info we want to see said info not your interetation of the results
uGmLB, when we ask for info we want to see said info not your interetation of the results/u

Southern_Gentlem, forgive me- http://rafb.net/p/MU1dwG38.html

Will yum -y update do anything to stop a box from rebooting?

No.

TJTrot, if you have conflicting repos enabled yep

Southern this is a fresh install from CD.. there still a chance?

yes
TJTrot, -y is never a good idea unless you definitely know what you are doing

ok.. how about just plain yum update? haha

wow, my pcm mixer level persisted after reboot

clear

strange

the difference is that without the -y yum will let you review the packages before updating

ok

hi!
how is everyone

heartburn
headache

Midol should help u djohngo

I'm having trouble getting updates for Fedora 7, whats a text based command to get updates?

Doesn't anyone read docs anymore?

umm
same as its always been: yum update

that crashes also
rpmdb open failed
This is a fresh install, haven't changed any settings

can you paste the full output of 'yum update' in a pastebin link?

g'night all

http://pastebin.com/d72c06106
also for some reason FireFox randomly goes back a page for no reason

backspace

only using the touchpad and while surfing it will go back

buggy touchpad

speaking of firefox, is there any way to make it so that clicking the scroll wheel down makes the scroll-slider thing where you just move the mouse cursor up and down to scroll? if that makes any sense

in firefox do 'about:config' search for 'mousewheel.horizscroll.withnokey.action' and double click on it and set it to 0

ah, that's weird

for your rpm issue, as root: "rm -f /var/lib/rpm/__db*" then "rpm –rebuilddb" and try yum again after that completes.

is there a work around for libata in fc7 not working with your hardware?

Nope.

cannot open Packages index using db3 - (-30977)

so i guess i have to switch distros
thats too bad
fedora was good
oh well

Or you could use FC6.

there is a good chance it won't work in the other distros if it doesn't work in 7
what is your hardware

not really
its just the kernel in fc7 had issues
as long as they dont use libata or at least an expirimental version its fine

somedude, stay with fc6 for now

but will i be able to upgrade to fc8

we are working on getting a respin out the door

oh
but i mean if new fedora versions come out every 6 months or so and its been 3 months already since the last one then isn't there a good chance theyll just put the development effort into f8

FC6 and F7 are still being maintained even though they're working on F8.

ya but its not a matter of being maintained
its will i be able to upgrade from fc6 to f7
f8 i mean

i just upgraded from fc5 straight to fc7

and there where no issues?

ugh

one minor thing where a /etc/yum.repos.d/ file for created as rpm new but that was easy to fix

i tried to install centos as well as fedora 7, no luck

did you get that error on the rebuilddb? or was that just a repeat of the error from your pastebin?

that was an error from rebuilddb
http://pastebin.com/d3e4bb594

Yum update stopped abruptly on another box due to a power outage- and rerunning it now gives me "Error: python-devel conflicts with python 2.4.4-1.fc6" How can I resolve this to continue the yum update?

package flash-plugin-9.0.48.0-a is already installed
can i force this to install
with yum

man yum

odd. This is a new F7 install? You have had no power outages or other issues?

there isnt an obvious answer to that in man yum

also, do: '/etc/init.d/yum-updatesd stop' and see if that helps to get the rebuild working?

super clean install, I had to change a few network options for my network card but that's all
same error

Is there anyway to recover from a power outage during a yum update?

run yum again?

bah upgrading broke my autologin

lol

oh.. apparently because the xserver is crashing

somedude, do you want to force the reinstall of the flash package only?

ya

then use the rpm command

isn't there yet a Xen patched kernel for the 2.6.22.1-fc7 kernel ?

instead of yum

i had to remove it and reinstall it to do the rest of the updates
ya but where does flash-plugin come from
i dont know where the rpm is

flash plugin comes usually directly from the adobe site
as it is proprietary
afaik

the outage may have left you with two versions of the python rpm installed. use rpm -qa 'python*' to find out.

Ask XenSource.

streeter, ah, so should I remove the newer one to resolve it?

weird. Not much else I can think of to do… you might try a quick reboot to make sure nothing is holding open the rpmdb…

thats so annoying why does it say it needs to update when its the same version

to be safe, I would remoce both and then "yum install python"

good question. posible answer: because the maintainer of the package did a bad job

you do realize that yum in written in python?

oops

streeter, oddly enough, rpm -e returned: "error: "python-devel-2.4.3-18.fc6" specifies multiple packages"
streeter, how could that be considering i specificed the version and everything?

they may be differernt arches… are you running a x86_64 distro version there?

btw, don't remove python. yum won't work it you do

streeter, well then I shouldn't remove both, lol?
nirik, yeah, x86_64
nirik, should I be specifying the arch?
nirik, how can I do so, just another .x86_64 at the end?

yeah, so it might be one is i386 and one is x86_64.
yes.

or –allmatches
or somethingn like that

you are just removing python-devel right?
you may also look at installing 'yum-utils' and then looking at the man page for 'package-cleanup'.

does nero screw up iso burning?

we cant know what's inside a proprietary software mind.

damn, Anvil that should be a tagline

ok
the image is fine

hi im a noob. does anyone know if i can get wirless on my thinkpad to work?
i dont know what chipset it uses. its a T61 thinkpad a/b/g wireless

brohken-work: does it show up when you run lspci in a terminal?
brohken-work: what version of fedora are you running ?

WebDragon i don't know. i didn't get the thinkpad yet. just ordered it but was considering running fc7 on it

difficult to say whether it'll work without it handy

oh i just found it
its not intel, seems to be aetheros

I got lucky with my wireless in the laptop my boss got me recently — all I needed to do was enable NetworkManager after the install and it found it immediately and let me configure everything
no need for madwifi or ndiswrapper

what is madwifi/ndiswrapper?

brohken-work: but there's a ton of wireless related info on the fedorasolved.org site — you might find info there

driver managers?

different ways of getting wireless working
_if_ there's support for it in the kernel, you'd only need to enable NetworkManager service… if not, then you look towards either madwifi or ndiswrapper
have a looksee around fedorasolved.org at the wireless related info and if you find mention of your specific hardware you'll have some instructions nearby on what to do

hi guys

WebDragon can you help me a bit
im not sure what i would need to do
the model number is 40Y7026
http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126266&highlight=40Y7026

I'm not sure either considering that the hardware isn't in your hands yet and you don't have F7 installed in order to test things with
all you can do at this point is read up on the various difficulties and solutions and plan ahead as much as possible to have a game plan

thanks

my first suggestion would be, install, and then enable the NetworkManager service and see if it works
if it doesn't, then look deeper into madwifi and/or ndiswrapper
brohken-work: there's a good bit of info here: http://fedoramobile.org/fc-wireless/ (apparently this spun off, from the original fedorasolved.org wireless related wiki)
but don't go running off in several directions at once before trying NetworkManager

hi all

Guys can someone guide me , I am try to install KDE 4 for Fedora 7 for using it in parallel with kde-3.5

DoctorPepper, kde4 hasnt been released yet

can anyone tell me how the fc3 install figures out whether the media it's trying to load is a proper fedora cdrom?
or venture a guess

FC3? o0

legacy support :-/

solomon, we dont care
fc3 is DEAD

there is no support for FC3 now. ;( Upgrade.

Im out of ideas with ATI on Fedora 7 86×64. Everything seems to work fine, no errors, I ve followed the guide and still DRI is off. any ideas?

DieRatte, what video card

Radeon X700
PCI Xpress

i don't get to decide to upgrade my company's tens of thousands of users, i'm just supposed to try and update this custom fc3 cd and thought somebody in #fedora might have information

ati dropped support alot of their cards

.discinfo

I tried FC3 years ago and didn't like it.. F7 has come a really long way

aha! thanks!

Southern_Gentlem, ati tells me to get version 8.40.4 for that card, which is most recent I think

but keeping thousands of users on fc3 borders on criminal negligence

all users must be required to install gentoo by hand in order to use their computer

indeed, considering FC3's not had a security update in ages

i agree.. it's not my decision.. however the next step that has been decided is to migrate to debian

oh, fun. enjoy that

debian is a good distro.

well, i am a debian fan, an ubuntu user, and a former debian developer, i think i can handle it

have fun retraining people in what's different though

all due respect to fedora… i have never used it aside from supporting fc3 so i can't really say anything about it
this is an appliance

ahh that's considerably easier then
lucky guy

yeah, we try not to let our users mess with anything besides our web UI
byeah, we try not to let our users mess with anything besides our web UI /b
of course if they can navigate our horrible UI, they can probably adapt to _any_ OS change

ROFL
well you're welcome to stop by #web anytime if you need help refinishing your web UI with some modern css/html markup

any new fedora wireless solutions to recommend?

it's since i tried putting our cd building system onto svn that the problem started… i'll bet svn didn't pick up the dot-file. it's not present in the new broken cd

I dont know what to do. I wish I was seeing an error, that I could at least fix. But there is nothing

http://fedoramobile.org/fc-wireless/

it's not so much the markup that's the problem (though it's ugly)… it's just badly designed… we give users plenty of rope to hang themselves with

DieRatte; what's the problem?

you shouldn't make configuration options change-able when most conceivable changes to them would break stuff

downhillgames, no DRI with ATI driver

we'll often provide feedback in redesign situations as well
LOL yeah

DieRatte; paste your xorg.conf
DieRatte; in the pastebin i mean…

i'll keep it in mind whenever they let me get to UI, if i'm the one they put on it anyway

downhillgames, just a sec

ty Southern_Gentlem

Hey, at least these taglines aren't as boring as There is Nothing by Ozric Tentacles from There Is Nothing, right? (:
*chhuckle*

downhillgames, http://rafb.net/p/oaUsde68.html

ty

ey |DrJef|

ego sum bono sed tu es fatuum

DieRatte; the "Module" and "Files" and "Monitor" sections can go… is your card AGP?

downhillgames, PCI express
I understand Files and Module, but doesnt it need a Monitor ?

DieRatte; ok. if you remove the "Monitor" section make sure to take it out of your "Screen" section as well. the less specified the better these days. Fedora auto-loads anything you need.

tu es obesus et fatuus

^
knoman; this is an English channel

downhillgames, alrite, Ill try that

???

DieRatte; i'm not sure if it'll fix your problem directly but yeah… less confusion anyway
knoman; #Fedora = English

english?

Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

meus latine es malum

ty ajax

visi

DieRatte; i need to reboot a minute. brb

im trying to get mysql to start and im getting a cant create PID error

AJaymn; to start it, as root, type: service mysqld start

downhillgames, gah

DieRatte; O_o yes? lol

looks like me mate wont let me repair his xorg right now
Ive been trying to long it seems
I guess I'll have to annoy you again tomorrow

DieRatte; do you have remote access or do you need to boot him off to try?
you're not annoying, silly

downhillgames, Ive got remote access, but not root.

ah

and after some hours he is kinda unwilling to let me reboot xorg now

well that's 1 thing to do. other than that, make sure the drivers are newest… it should work…

^-^

Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon.
[FAILED]

AJaymn; #mysql unless someone else here knows. timeout… idk
brb

downhillgames, *sigh* I will. Trying to catch you tomorrow
see ya

np
miss me?

*crickets*
(:

Having problems gettting the printer to work in a Wine prog. What can it be?

cries, even
there is probably some kinda special stuff you need to do to make your printer work with WINE.
that's NOT helpful, i know… but yeah… it's not Fedora

can windows work with printers served by a CUPS server ?

over SMB

Or IPP.

hi ivazquez

Hey.

OKi…..this smels like posting in a forum. But thanks for the help.

try providing some actual information
you might get help

I'm trying to use Picasa for printing fotos.

mmmmm sushi

Picasa is available for Linux

Yeah I know but it has to run in Wine, and I can't get it to print.

it has to? why?

because the official release still has it using WINE
it's official, but not native

Don't ask me. Is the only version I can find.
Is the a unofficial version running in KDE?

hiya

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9556554213.html
a href="http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9556554213.html"http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9556554213.html/a
http://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/yum.html
anyway… uh.. idk about setting up a printer… should google…
it worked at my friend's house with his HP printer out-of-box

I blame gremlins

yeah… Gizmo Was Here

Guys can someone guide me , I am try to install KDE 4 for Fedora 7 for beta testing

yay, Beryl

anyone know a goos place to look for scientific secure linux web hosting rpms? someplace like rpm forge?

what do you mean by scientific linux?

i just installed dhcpd, and when i "service dhcpd start" it always failed, any idea why ?

your /var/log/messages knows why

ok, thx

Hi guys
I need some help to configure the DNS in my Fedora
I have not any Xwindow
can anyone help me?

okay guys

you dont have an x-server?

here is what i get when ia ttempt to boot up centos or fedora
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1150/1119502850_808292b075_b.jpg

those are easy to get

scientif linux the distribiution…based on redhat…

you also don't have fedora
you have rhel
we've already been round and round on this

no I have installed fedora 7

ok.. i have a problem.. updated from FC5 to FC7 … now my xserver crashes attempting to use an openGL app on nvidia binary driver

Now I have got a Fedora
distro without xwindow

uname -a

fedora comes with a fairly decent x-server

Fedora release 7 (Moonshine)
I know but I'm creating a web server
for my projects
I would like to configure the Internet connection

are you at the computer now?

yes

does it have local network connectivity?
ie can you reach it from another computer that has an x-server?

I have already set the IP, subnet mask and gateway

right, so you can reach it from another computer

yes i have a VPN
with the DELL Remote Access Controller DRAC

i dont know what that is
can you or can you nto reach the computer from another networked computer?
nto=not

not directly

directly is irrelevant

The DRAC is a network card attached on the server

i see
sounds like a bit of a hazzle. how do you plan to connect to it later on?

that helps the administrator to manage the server

i still dont get it. can you connect to this computer frmo another computer, using ssh?

I can connect with a VPN

has the recent gstreamer update pushed to stable broken jokosher by any chance?

to it

then get on another computer, connect to it with ssh, and run system-config-network, an duse that computer's x-server

earthw0rm, updates-testing or updates?

I can't do it

updates

you just said you could
what happende since then?

#crazy_pills

I can't connect to the server hosting by ssh because it is a service opened in the Server
but the server is not connected to the internet

that makes no sense. the ssh is supposed to be opened on the server.

only the DRAC card
can connect to it
by a VPN

how are other poeple supposed to connect to the webserverer then?

magic.

through the DRAC on vpn?

no one is connected to the server

in #opsec they autoban you.

is NEW

were you just checking i wasn't moaning about testing?

surely it will be availbale at some point?

can't cure stupid.

for people to connect to the webserver?

at the moment the system is not connected to the internet

opsec; i'm not about to enter into a discussion about that. we can agree to disagree, can we not?

why not connect it?

no.

I have to configure at least one network card

i disagree that we can agree to disagree

i finally got m VM stuff done

you just said you had ip address, netmask etc..

and I don't know How can I configure the DNS

there is no DNS configuration for netowrk cards
they have various ip address host related parameters

rolaids?

and you said you had those?

antacids .. for upset stomach .. due to stress

I have set the ip, subnet, getway it's all?

enough to connect to it, yes

ah

ok I'm trying again

sup opsec

r0b-: your fedora dvd is on the way
mr. postman has it now

lol
:P

WTF i am so tired of this install

sent to israel, russia, and michigan today

im going to throw it out the window121211

do you have a dhcp service you could set it up with temporarily?

MEM_BUFFER INVALID

well im still trying this VM tools crap

tomorrow is south africa, india and argentina

what is that?

brohken-work: format and install windows

brohken-work; what's wrong?

opsec yuck. i think i'd rather use DOS. gotta get fc7 working

opsec; stop not-helping.

anyone having problems with nvidia binary driver crashing the moment an openGL app touches it

no, did you try the livna version?
it supposedly has better mojo

/ignore opsec
enjoy.

i am using the livna version

opsec; /quit bye. enjoy more.

i think it may be conflicting with mesa libGL

fresh air is amazing. seriously.

just got some .. you know what's even better? people that don't come in whining but provide FACTS about their problems so they *can* be helped

but i cannot uninstall mesa libGL duo to dependancies

instead of incessant bitching and moaning

opsec; i couldn't agree more. and what makes them whine more is not getting people to ask what's wrong, but telling them to shut up.

i got it working

there are numerous places where people can learn how to ask proper questions

Kazan; what's the error message?

oh no i think it froze

for those of us that help daily it's REALLY a god damn PITA when people come in with that crap

opsec; like the topic? tell them to type /topic and click the link, perhaps

nothing useful

Kazan; humor me. paste your errors and outputs to the pastebin

sarcasm is one of the only ways to deal with it effecitively and still let me have my sanity

it's nothing useful.. all it says is two lines
lemme cause it to generate the error

did you get the right kmod ?

yes
i'm not a newb
hmm… i think it may just be mythfrontend… stand by
just two lines.. one mentioning xf86sig handler or somesuch

when might fedora 7 release a kmod-nvidia-xen ?

Kazan; i suggest you check logs and outputs (like dmesg, etc) for some real errors.

ask livna

that's why they exist

oh right dmesg now i feel like a newb!

ok

there is an ongoing discussion on various xen- and nvidia forums

hi, does anyone know anything about whether there's any realtime stuff in the fedora kernel?

ok.. nothing in dmesg that is useful

last i checked the writing on the wall was that nvidia developers were interested

so any patches release to get latest drivers work with latest xen kernel released officialy by fedora ?

Kazan; check /var/log?

in a minute
glxgears isn't crashing it
i think it was just mythfrontend

darn… lol

i think the work flow is more like a) nvidia catches interest b) nvidia compiles it c) livna includes it in repo
its barely started at a=
*a)

is it agp=0 or agp=off for the kernel opt to turn off internal AGPGART

while i see your point with regards to pissing people off .. it's my answer to not having any form of structure here
no on is required to read anything .. no one looks at sites that were designed to help them
they just come in and bitch .. or use phrases like "my computer is broke HALP!"
it gets old

fair enough. you know what i could say in response but there is no point. you are right to say they don't have any point to their whining but i am wrong to judge how you feel about certain things

so i intend to have a little fun with them
and maybe torture them a bit

nothing to do

"nothing to do?" A: When yum reports "nothing to do" what it's really saying is that the "package may already be installed" (or it doesn't exist), so there's nothing for it to do. (ask directly: rpm -q package).

the problem persist

opsec your a jerk and terrible addition to the fedora community

brohken-work; you need to shut up.

what problem?

brohken-work: you have no idea ..

downhillgames i was trying to help you

I have set the IP, SUBNET and Gateway but the connection doesn't appear

is there anyway to turn off ALL services for a certain run level with chkconfig ?

i don't need "help" discussing nicely with opsec.

and i don't need to do anything for you btw

for yourself.

thats a problem. and its not dns related.
one of the parameters is wrong

I have checked many times

btw what do you mean with "the connection doesn't appear"

I have tryed to ping www.google.com

*sigh*

and the reply is Host not reachble

did you miss the point about connecting to it from another computer
ping your gateway

for myself what?

its *ip address*

claude_monet_imp; can't connect to the internet? paste "route" "ifconfig" and "cat /etc/resolv.conf" into the pastebin
brohken-work; drop it.

ok, downhillgames

you drop it

is there anyway to turn off ALL services for a certain run level with chkconfig ???????????????/

why not save yourself the trouble and start the xserver?
you can stop it afterwards you know

I can't do it

i dont appreciate when i ask a question in #fedora and the answer is to use windows

the installation is without X

claude_monet_imp; if you simply need to configure the NIC(s) without X, run "setup" as root.

brohken-work: needless to say, #fedora is not about your appreciation

Ok I do it

yum grouplist available

I come back quickly

hope that works well enough for you.

identify X window system, groupinstall it

its a community that should help users. just because im a noob am i not welcome?

system-config-network-tui

brohken-work; you insult those you do not listen to. have you read opsec's points?

now-now, io said appreciation, didnt i

opsec; is that the same thing?

-o

i read his asshat reply to me. wasn't funny
you know what. whatever
ubuntu it is
peace

terminal user interface for system-config-network .. i.e. no xserver

opsec; oh i know what tui is, but does it do the exact same thing as "setup"?

not sure ..

it will launch automatically frmo system-config-network, but i fhink there is no dns entry in there
s/f/t/
gah

After a fresh install of Fedora 7, which were the next two non zen kernel updates please? I am reinstalling fedora and want to manually install those first two kernel updates for a QA reason.
After a fresh install of Fedora 7, which were the next two non zen kernel updates please? I am reinstalling fedora and want to manually install those first two kernel updates for a QA reason.

E-mu: browse an update repo mirror

that will not work because it shows only the newest ones

brohken-work: go back and read your initial comments on entering this room ..
bah ..

opsec; even better. he ignorantly left.

oh i thought it would store all

good.

the echo icon theme is pretty sweet

3228 was one but just before that was one and then the next one I think was 2.6.21.1-41.fc7 so I want to know which ones were before that

Then check koji.

E-mu: look in koji

too many on koji

E-mu: filter by tag (update-candidate, update….)

not sure how to do that?

koji.fedoraproject.org/koji
click the "k" for kernel

ok. apparently X-Chat2 hates theme changing

there are only 3-4 pages of kernels

XChat isn't what it used to be any more

well… yeah…
i liked it better a few years ago

few things are

i do so wish my X-Fi worked in Linux. I mailed them and they gave a generic reponse :/

ok thanks

and pointed me to "a page with a promise"

does the default Fedora 7 kernel have lm_sensors implemented?

Most, yes.

the default install of fedora 7 doesn't use compiz does it?

No.

metacity i believe

Some redhat guy has reassigned one of the bugs I reported to compiz..groan…I'll email him

For GNOME, yes. KDE uses kwin.
Which one?

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=250568
They've closed the thing too
GROAN

ok
the problem persist
I'm pasting the screenshot

http://rafb.net/paste/

I can't do copy the text

did you ping your gateway yet?

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5538/networkcardfd2.png
yes I have ping the gatway but it reply Host not reachable

and you pinged it by ip address?
not by hostname?

yes of course

what address is your gateway?
good, sorry.

Activating desktop effects does use compiz.

89.186.92.221 ?

yes
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3292/routets1.png

ivaquez, thanks

hi…i wonder if there is a vmware appliance of fedora?

checked cables?

yes
and are connected
correctly

are you at the computer now?

yes

sambiase you looking to run vmware under fedora?

try arping the gateway

arping?

nope…want to run fedora as a VM

yes..
and tell if it replies or not

what is it?

i think i found…is it the latest .. fedora core 6 ?

I haven't seen one specifically, but you should be able to use one of the live images under it.

it's a bone you have been thrown, make good use of it

i think this is the one … http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/618

nothing to do

"nothing to do?" A: When yum reports "nothing to do" what it's really saying is that the "package may already be installed" (or it doesn't exist), so there's nothing for it to do. (ask directly: rpm -q package).
b"nothing to do?" A: When yum reports "nothing to do" what it's really saying is that the "package may already be installed" (or it doesn't exist), so there's nothing for it to do. (ask directly: rpm -q package)./b

it didnt reply?

That one was community-contributed.

what is it arping?

man arping ?
it will basically tell if arp lookups work
which admittadly hardly ever helps resolve issues like this. but its good to get it out of the way.

is that one a lot different than another ver of fedora?

ah ok

http://bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/01/os_quiz/apple_dos.jpg

You know what's a good thing to do? Take advantage of search boxes.
http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/901

http://bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php

your interface seems correctly configured

…thank u…

mine says UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST though

ah and i answered ~3 questions as i was split on them… http://bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/01/os_quiz/debian.jpg
debian Linux.
so really oldschool DOS or a simple, secure Linux distro… i'll take it

i don't get it.. what is debian?

lol

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/454/pinggatewayyh7.png
nada
also the arping doesn't works!

cat /etc/resolv.conf

when asked for the output of uname -a he says "fedora 7 moonshine"

umm

no opsec it is a fedora

you have a hat?

now now

4 EDT 2007 i686 athlon i386

someone may have been *drinking* the moonshine
one would think..

wait.. wtf.. am i running an SMP kernel on a single processor machine…

an smp *enabled* kernel

ah

if your processor is not dual core or you do not have multi processors .. then the smp flag will be ignored

gotcha
i didn't realize they finally fixed that stuff

it's just enabled by default now instead of building a separate kernel just for one flag

used to be you could barely find working versions of a lot of packages for smp builds

i don't seem to recall that
i only have multi proc machines

moonshine where????

wasn't recently opsec

i'm not recently running linux either

fc5 had separate smp kernels

claude_monet_imp, your 'screenshots' look like they're from vmware or something - not a real machine - so your problem could be elsewhere
bclaude_monet_imp, your 'screenshots' look like they're from vmware or something - not a real machine - so your problem could be elsewhere/b

opsec; what are you running on your Xeons now?

fedora of course .. removed the preinstalled rhel

I have a real machine

then what did you mean up there^?

a Dell poweredge 1950

i meant .. i've been running fedora linux since rh5.2
anyway .. off to mail fedora to south africa

?

but why? I has one…

but someone else doesn't

valid point *nods wisely*

packaging it up now ..

why can't they download a copy…?

i don't ask .. i just mail

internet = expensiiiiiiiiiiiiiive

opsec; i need a copy of… j/k
have fun. i need to mail some PC parts out

heh….I need to mail myself to bed shortly

"Hi! i need fedora because i can't download .. thanks, webmaster"
no address .. no other contact info

thanks downhillgames
like a challenge?

no idea

whispers…

i doubt he'll be receiving a copy .. since i don't play email host tag

hahaha
you'll probably be receiving a flame mail in ~3 weeks about why didn't you post his fedora…

i'd be amazed if you play *anything*

it should be assumed you'd need to include *some* mailing address, how else are you supposed to receive it?

magic

3rd person shooters
doesn't help though.

Resident Evil is a great game.
game series… whatever

nganga!

but why?

opsec, validate a webform instead?

email is clear enough.
if someone said to you "hey you can get fedora for free by sending your information to getfedora@fedoraos.org" .. would you just say "hi" ?

have I set also the DNS?

i think the email and the numerous instructions given here should be enough.

i dunno. email-only is kinda personal.
i gotta get to know you first

haha
that good enough?

321 elm street, apt 2b!

maybe they think their warm personalities should bubble through automatically and then you'll know where they are?

freddy? is that you?

as just proven above ^^ by zcat …… :-/

i do have a webform i made .. i may use it
i'll set it up tonight.. for now .. off to mail a few fedora dvds out
i'll set it up tonight.. for now .. off to mail a few fedora dvds out

!

!?

^ryum^r^r

!=

but why?

hi

yo

lol..
whats the minimum hardware requirements to run fedora 7?

if (downhillgames == "") ….{exec(boom)}

gordo ??

A Pentium 3 with 128MB of RAM
for Xorg

fat

back already?

fg opsec

ok.. but does it have some other kinda meaning? why would my GF call me Gordo ?

i-hate-myself; anything above that is gravy

im blatently not fat

she might think you are

lol

maybe she meant _phat_

translate.google.com

hahaha

hm ok.so with a laptop (pentium 3, 800mhz ,256mb ram) i will be able to make gud use of it?

yeh translate says fat.. but I was wondering if a native language speaker would shed more light lol

i-hate-myself; good? idk… it'll run alright

like maybe it means Im a greasy bastard or something

watch t3h language, ixion_uk

ok ok thx

I think Ill tell her the same thing

erm…..

haha

ja froz?

you know those things that when you look back upon them you can see they were a bad idea?

lol

evening, btw ixion_uk

ixion_uk; yo tengo un gato in mes panteloons

hey
which means ?
ive seen that panteloons word before but nothing can translate it

i have a cat in my pants

haha
doesn't that hurt?
the cat, I mean….poor thing….

don't be so literal

:-p

what does that mean lol

nothing
moving on

touche

what is "you" in spanish?

tu
i think..

yeah

what is "your"

dunno?
tunno?
tu~no?

su ?

no, ixion_uk….that's for becoming root
……..

lol

ixion_uk; text her: tienes un gato en tus pantalones

I'll give her a good su

"you have a cat in your pants" haha

why?

EvilBob, because you need to reverse the polarity of /dev/null
mui mal

zcat

…is sexy.

lies

truth, i'm afraid :/

muy malo*

malo = ?

bad

my brother's becoming a teacher. teaching ESL.

I need to learn spanish

my sister works at a bank. my finances suck. lol
what's your point?

short shrivled and always to the left?

downhillgames, an inside job.

hello VileGent

hello

ola

sheesh….usually one gets kick ed *out* of bed…:-?
kicked*

ooo. so Miro (democracy player) should officially hit the testing repo tomorrow: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761

zcat; i JUST searched yumex for "miro" haha

miro the tv thing?

yes.
what is koji?

ooops ran out of battery again

free tv? whats the catch?

downhillgames, been running my custom rolled rpm for the past month. couldn't wait.

zcat; would your custom-rolled rpm work for me?

ixion_uk, like itunes, but video-only, and for all platforms

hello, daMaestro

downhillgames, possibly. http://jasonfarrell.com/fedora/7/

yeah but the quality of whats on there cant be that good if its free?

hello downhillgames

quality of content… not video quality

wow, stop using free software
would you say the quality of free software is not that good because it's free?

so is that hte catch ?

;-)

zcat; hope yours doesn't complain for firefox 2.0.0.3

so im saying that people who make tv stuff do so to make money
so whatever on there cant be that good?

downhillgames, er, yeah, depends on 2.0.0.5

im asking really.. I have no idea

zcat; should i compile from source (SRPM)?

ixion_uk, podcasts/vidcasts have been popular for ~3 years now. you haven't checked any of it out yet?

nope

ixion_uk, there's stuff from "amateurs" as well as the oldguard media co's

so are you saying that one should be using used software because it's been tried and tested?

NPR, etc

ixion_uk; don't feel bad. i barely have some of it is very interesting, though.

anyways all, I'm almost on my way

ill check out this miro thing
is it p2p ?

no.

or streamed from a server somewhere

sleep well, or work well, or chill well (whichever TOD it is where you are)

trioxid, no, /ignore me

effectively it's just an RSS reader/media player

cool ill check it out tomorrow
sleep time for now
night peeps

cya ^_^

are you guys talking about Democracy?

yes
now called Miro

maybe she meant to send it to her 2nd bf?

fat bastard!

downhillgames, doesn't work here
i filed a bug a while ago

daMaestro; yeah. see zcat's link

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=244889

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=250044

duped!

Silicon Park…

wow.. that is pretty trivial bug

downloading Ep1 now
yeah, you'd think it would just get re-packed

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761 is what i'm trying

1 more time. what is Koji?

the fedora build sys
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Koji

doh. thanks
5mins for the Silicon Park episode, woot. i get to see if Miro will lock, stall, have no video, play or kill Xorg somehow lol

Hi, using Fedora 7 x64 and I'm trying to use Audacity to import an MP3 file but it says it wasn't compiled with MP3 support, even though it can export in mp3. How can I import MP3 files?

http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi

yess… Miro works here

good link, EvilBob

miro is hott

lolz

EvilBob, wow.. according to that fedora has very little mindshare

I find Fedora sooo much easier than Ubuntu
less nags, etc
so i was supprised, too, daMaestro.
Democracy can't play this file. lol

downhillgames, it can play anything xine can play.

interesting.
sec.

downhillgames, aka… yum install xine-lib-extras-nonfree
;-)

daMaestro; have some caffeine. you're slow today

"today"?

it still wont play
ah. needed to be restarted
WISH MY X-FI WORKED
thank you VERY much, zcat the official (patched) just locked on me when i tried playing anything.

What is the NetworkManagerDispatcher service used for? Should that be an enabled daemon or only when NetworkManager is enabled or is that indeppendent of NetworkManager?

downhillgames, cool. a bug report.

E-mu: it can run stuff when the network changes

isit on by default?

zcat; i've yet to try the testing package… it works… i'm not "fixing" it now.

how do I install hpssd?

AndyCap on a fresh install of F7 is that daemon enabled?

no, E-mu. i just installed a couple hours ago and it's off by default.

E-mu: no, NM and NMD are not on by default

indeed

E-mu: not sure if NMD is needed for the default setup on fedora, but I don't think so

thanks

handy if you want to run software etc when the netconnection comes up

i seem to turn on NMD, AndyCap is it not needed to do actions such as dhclient?

well if you install NetworkManager I can only assume that must either get installed or enabled not sure?

they do not auto-enable
http://fedoramobile.org/fc-wireless/network-manager/

thanks thats actually what I needed to know

is LIRC busted with 2.6.22?!

fg? what's that mean?

I have found that at least with recent releases, if you have the NetworkManager service up, and you use the ifup command, you get error messages from ifup because the dhclient initiated by the NetworkManager and the dhclient initiated by ifup interfere with each other. It does end up
successfully getting an ip address though.
Anyone else see that?
bug or feature?

bug?

makes sense, so just set the interface to ONBOOT=NO
and let NetworkManager do it

I seem to not remember seeing this issue with the original f7 dvd install, even with onboot=yes
hmm, I should go prove that…I'll go boot my usb hdd with the original f7 install and if I can prove degradation I'll report a bug

**yawn** what did i miss

chocolate rain.

If it worked before you could sort of call it a bug, but NetworkManager is really designed to do it's own thing outside of ifup/ifdown stuff. Since it can do things like WPA where as ifup/ifdown don't.

ftp://mirror.anl.gov/pub/fedora/linux/releases/7/Fedora/source/SRPMS
?

didn't it get renamed?

Missing Dependency: firefox = 2.0.0.3 is needed by package Democracy

to miro

need to notify the maintainer
seems to be in the repos still

the rename hasn't drifted to the stable repo yet.

don't see miro in the repos

it's not there yet.
hmm CentOS or Debian Stable for my server… i'm about to go install

centos

i do enjoy working with RedHat but the debian packages are nice. :/
the package selection, that is

opsec, http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761
Democracy …

opsec

ooo. so Miro (democracy player) should officially hit the testing repo tomorrow: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761

wtf is Miro ?

it's a media player and RSS reader

hmmm Internet TV?

yeah, pretty much

hows the quality of internet tv?

great

i just download all my TV off usenet

at 1680×1050 everything looks fine.

is it like youtube-quality

better

hi how do i change the ip to dhcp via console please

no way

skylark_server; system-config-network-tui
moeSizlak; way

commercials?

nah. it downloads the eps and plays them
if it's in a RSS feed, it can get "it"
miro can download it
go look it up
http://www.getmiro.com/

where does it get them from?

the same place podcasts come from, i think

well do it have EVERY show, even HBo showtime, etc ?
cus i need to be watching weeds and entourage

so download it on usenet and watch it with Miro

s/do/does/

it's a media player as well as a video downloader….

i need to find the tech specs of this alleged "Internet TV"

daMaestro thanks.

you could always try paying for expensive shows and what not
they don't get made for free

well i pay $24.99/mo for usenet and get everything under the sun including movies

illegally… more or less
i use usenet as well.

stupid question time. I have a fc3 headless server (yea, hit me again), it's remote and I cant physically update it (yet) and i need to update tcl and python on it. as yum repositories are offline, how do I gou about this? just dl the tcl and python rpm and hope for the best?

thanks for the help

Kitsune_, not much more you can do.

foreground ?

Kitsune_; /topic. it's not supported anymore

Kitsune_, or you could just install new versions in /opt

down, yea, I know (hit me again

So you won't disturb the running system.

whats the incentive to release live TV for free w/ no commercials?
i just dont get it

moeSizlak; why is that a need?
if that happened, TV wouldn't be TV.
actors couldn't get paid…

not sure what you mean

downhillgames, what are we talking about?

is there like a TV-Guide for Internet TV?

pembo13; we, being me and moeSizlak are talking about internet TV
moeSizlak; what is "Internet TV"

1 * opsec & fg opsec … you

thats what im trying to figure out

shin, just one of the users needs the update/uses it, so unless you are saying that it might take down the whole system (bad

can I give absolute positioning to an element without moving it horizontally?

cpu[1 x AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+ @ 2.13GHz w/ 512 KB L2 Cache]
whroops!

I remember when all my Atari STe had half a meg of RAM total
*had was

hehe
man, xchat got all the info about my boxen
ether[Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet]
video[ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AS [Radeon 9550] @ Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 741/741GX/M741 Host]
heh
enetdata eth1
netdata[eth1: 1079.3 MB Recieved, 55.7 MB Sent]
that's in 1 day 3 hours.. I wonder what it gets up to when I'm running torrents and the boxen is up for a month ~
mem[Physical : 1011MB, 18.8% free | Swap : 2863MB, 60.3% free]

sounds like windows :p

fuzzy76, right! I was running it recently in vmware. If I do, it make my box slow :/
until freakin' reboot _

bad vmware I suppose

bad windblows I suppose
os[zoffix@zoffix, Linux 2.6.20-16-generic i686]

well, vmware should ofcourse release all associated memory and processes to a guest os when the guest os is shut down

fuzzy76, yeah I know what you are saying, I have no idea why this happens. If I leave windblows running in vmware for a night.. my box will be hardly responsive in the morning :/

Hello chaps!

when background-image:url(../images/nav-bg.jpg); the image repeats, but when i set it on "no-repeat" no image shows at all. What other parameters can i use here?

Anyone had a problem with IE6 ignoring width:auto;?

Because background-image takes ONE property.

trovster, what alternative can i use ?

]css background @ MidasWS

css background: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#propdef-background

http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_background.asp

The spec is, erm, better, but meh

thanks trovster, that did the trick

]w3schools @ SimonNetEx

http://www.w3schools.com/flash/flash_inhtml.asp | Complete bullshit: http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_intro.asp

Oh dear.

]schools

Explore the intricacies of HTML and CSS here: www.blooberry.com/ , www.htmlhelp.com/ , http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ , www.brainjar.com/ , www.htmldog.com/ , http://css.maxdesign.com.au/

How can you get the same effect in css as setting the align property for an image?
No, that's not illegal.

can someone take a look at something for me? i have a weird IE disappearing border problem when a boundary div (relatively positioned) is set to a negative left value
http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test2.html
oddly, if i set a width on the contentbox, the border problem disappears. but suddenly the equal height columns i've got working stop working and the main area height shrinks up. totally confounded…

why is the image before "Articles" non-transparent in IE, but not in FF? http://eco.pats.no/playground

Quick question, how do you format cells in a table to have a border of 1px between them (not 2px because each cell has a 1px border adjacent)

hi.
absolute to #Menu div, my menu seems different between ie and firefox.here is link http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ how can i fix it ?

lots of questions, few answers in here

any idea?

yeah, what a great channel -.-

absolute to #Menu div, my menu seems different between ie and firefox.here is link http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ how can i fix it ?..

Well…
]know xhtml

Are you using XHTML? READ THIS: http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml , http://hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml , http://www.webdevout.net/articles/validity-and-well-formedness

Why transitional and not strict

problem is about doctype ?
so?
so, problem is about doctype?

meh

it almost ever is the problem
*NEVER

what will i do?

Doctype is almost NEVER the problem… ok!

What do you think about setting for all divs such style as default - overflow: hidden ?? Will it slow renderending?

Can't say for certain, but I think yes, it will — but again, don't really know. It would almost certainly depend on the browser's implementation.

http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ links dont same ie and ffx

Yeh, you keep repeating that…

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
in firefox this page displays properly, but in IE there is a white what seems to be 1px boreder between the intter cells
does anyone know what is causing this?

is it possible to use a gif image host for a custom cursor?

http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ why my menu seems different on ie and ffx ?

Yeh, you keep repeating that…

looks the same to me.

Flannel:are you sure?

no, but if you would mention what youre seeing as different, it'd make it easier

ok
my menu is on ie, under 3 -5 pixels from firefox location.im seeing it.

why text-indent shouldn't works there, please? http://www.laquarra.it/la-quarra-it/la-quarra-chi-siamo/la-quarra-appartamenti/tonino-la-quarra/
p class="des"a href="…"text/a

To which dark gods of CSS must I sacrifice to get Firefox to centre form legends? http://tachyondecay.net/php/dev/vsns/addnews.html

what's the best method of getting a background image in a safari text input?
i know that you can't really place one traditionally, but sites like apple.com have them - i just can't figure out how to recreate the effect

im looking for some nice horizontal dropdown menu implementations
maybe using jquery

Why li:hover + ul {} sorted.

lols
i wouldnt call that an implementation
perhaps with some whiz-bang action

How is that not an implentation? That's THE code you need for a dropdown menu.

ok, implementation with demo online that uses some shiny modern animation or other sparkly effects

http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81
ha, have fun.

yea that looks bad

What… ?

that link

What… ?

hte menus on the link you just posed

This is a long time ago… but I have a css question!

Hahahaha. Oh jesus.

IE6 PNG problem

Drop-down menus; no thanks! Some websites seem dead set on using drop-down menus for navigation, but I see so many problems with them I really can't understand why they persist. In this article I list out the main reasons I find them problematic and why I would always advise against their
use.

The CSS containing the immages

dae lemme guess, no alpha channel?

It's not about the dropdowns, and that site doesn't even have dropdowns, and the menus aren't "bad". It's an article about the lameness of dropdowns.

yeah probably. Problem is I don't know anything about alpha channel stuff

trov — i am supposed to replace some existing, crappy vertical navigation flash menus with some reasonable, css, horizontal menus
that will work with *
thats the kinds of examples im looking for
dae - you gotta put some IE centric active somethingorother code in there

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/ See More: http://www.google.com/search?q=png+ie+fix

Is it possible to use indexed PNGs instead of RGB PNGs? That's how I solve most of my PNG transparency issues with IE
You lose alpha transparency though

yeah but I need alpha for the shadows

indexing is really hard to match up sometimes

actually I'm just the coder, my graphic guy needs them

Ah

a) Don't use PNGs b) Remove certain channel (not sure which it is) to even out colour matching with hex c) Use the fix stated above.

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

Have you tried suckerfish dropdowns?

im looking at the superfish right now
im sure ill end up making my own anyway, just surveying right now
bim sure ill end up making my own anyway, just surveying right now/b
relax, trovster
thats no way to stay in the web game

I agree that dropdown menus aren't great, but they can be useful in certain cases

Sure it is.

i agree tach… I'm just trying to modernize some small critical elements of a new clients site, before we migrate its codebase to the next generation
totally needs a full redesign but thats impractical at this point

how does one make a textarea the size of its containing element?

Guys
I need help

lol

look at this page

um, dont think so

what?

i dont think you can do that with any certainty

… wow
so … in summary … CSS sux?

sure

100%; height: 100%;?

no, that doesn't work

I know that width works; I've never tried setting height

tach i think all thats dependent on font etc

doesn't account for padding/borders

Ah

plys each browser represents the box differently
ala scrollbars, etc

Yes, styling form elements can be a pain
Kill scrollbars :p

romes if you wanna see change, check out whatwg forms

hmmm

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/

Instead of fitting the textarea to your container, can you fit your container to your textarea?

crappy part is, I'm not using my own forms, I'm styling a Joomla module. heh.

the repetition model is pretty cool idea

can i have a class that floats right above another class
so in the class below it the text wraps it
it works in firefox
but not ie

can you say that again?

hold on

the text wraps what?
the float?
put the float after the class you want the text to wrap around

http://pastebin.ca/647645
right now that top one goes in and the bottom class text wraps it in firefox
but not ie

reverse the order

and that is the only way i can set it up , i cant put the class within the blah class
if i do that sky it just goes at the bottom of the blah class

i dont have IE sorry cant look at the issue
seems that your doing it correctly tho

Anyone alive around here?

]question
hrm

]ask

Just ASK! Those asking to ask are risking axing. Don't try the water. Don't try our patience. Don't be dumb. Just ask your question and wait.

Wow

trovster, any ideas on my problem?

what a welcoming

sky has you covered..

sigh

there we go

do yo understand what i am trying to do?
and is there a solution

trovster how about a little bit more respect and less condescension

what should I use to stop browsers assuming horizontal align of centre (FF assumes left, IE7 assumes centre)

}reset
]reset

]zip

* { margin: 0; padding: 0; }. You'll save yourself the confusion over quite a few strange element and browser spacing differences later on. * == http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#universal-selector

bah

I apologize for the solicit, but if anyone is interested in a web developer position, please send just your resume to humansky@princeton.edu, CSS and XHTML a must, XML/XSLT, Flash, and JavaScript a bonus

]reset needs to be added… :s

i'm using that already
but it doesn't sort out alignment

trovster, is it possible to have a class above another and it goes in the one below?

Are you talking about TR/td/th ?

in firefox it does

who is that directed at trovster
just use names
its far less confusing

you need to have the content before the image

there's a reason to use names, particularly when 5 people are chatting at once
have a code sample?
or the actual site to look at?

So… who were YOU talking to… haha

sky, even if i was to reverse them, then it just goes under it

its just an empty table

If there is too little space on a line for the floating element, it will jump down on the next line, and continue until a line has enough space.
Content, background, and borders of inline elements should go in front of the float. Background and borders of a block element should go behind the float, but the content of the block element should go in front of the float.

well it's not empty exactly but heres the site http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

sky, it would work fine, if i put it within class blah http://pastebin.ca/647645

well, i guess you dont have to have it second

but i cant in this situation

make the img display:block

sky, that class that is being wrapped is not an image
its just text ads

oh
then you might wanna spec a width on it
and still use displayblock

ya that does not good

umm, in http://bessey.no-ip.biz/CSS/customcal.css you have body text-align: center;
do you want it not centered?

correct
damn is that in the second style sheet?
yep right thanks fixed it

start with one stylesheet till you get it set right, then split it based on need

Will do

and get the web dev toolbar for firefox

no, get firebug

now how do I get those links to go next to each other instead of above?
http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

ok, i've a stupid question. i've a lot of experience coding, but not much in design like CSS. i have a page that works fine in everything we've tried but IE 6, but unfortunately we've a lot of folks still using that. it's a min-width/width sort of prob. my question is- can i/how do i set to
one property the value taken from another elements property? e.g. max-width: parent width; ?

rev
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width.html

hmz I can't seem to fix the alpha layer problem… or mmy IE4Linux doesn't work

how do i make content inside of a div centered
like vertically align the text so its centered, same padding on top as on bottom

Here's a better link, rev http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/000892.html

dont use padding, use height

line-height: sameasdivheight;

but vertical-align: probably works to

no , it wont

vertical-align only works on block level elements

no

how do you make divs go next to each other instead of stacking?

float

it works only on table-type elements

"table-type" is block

what?

its not the same

Yes it is. Stop talking.
left; all of them
all; div after them

vertical-align aint working with displat:block , you ASSHOLE

WTF

mefisto, stop talking.

vertical-align *doesn't* work on *any* block elements

thanks that works, but hypothetically what if I wanted them centred

vertical-align only works on inline elements and table- elements

i started an arguement :V

Then what am I thinking, Nanobot?

Read the spec

BSG, stop talking

is a table-cell element, not a block element

Ah.

so yes.. centred float?

.

RubberDucky132, you'll have to center a wrapper of your floats

lmao

Floats should be wrapped anyway.

line-height: sameasdivheight; is there any way to write this as a variable

ok

or do i need to hardcode the pixel size

No mphill22

http://innonesen.se/test/l-2-txt , RubberDucky132

Also, there's a difference between HTML "block" elements and CSS "block" elements.

ok BSG, thankyou!

CSS isn't a programming language

this is the link http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/demo/kirby/ ; it works fine in O9, recent WebKit, Safari, FF 2, IE 7, but in IE 6 setting min-width or width to 100%, but it's 100% of the width from two other points

In HTML, "block" pretty much means "not in the flow of text" more or less. It's also a way to organize elements in the DTD.
In CSS, "block" is a display type

thank god, because that'd be one sick sort of torture; i'd rather code in befunge than CSS

And some elements that are "block" in html aren't "block" in CSS

]]]table

table http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-html#support-html401-table (IE 6:90.152%) (IE 7:90.152%) (FF 1.5:94.318%) (FF 2:94.318%) (Opera 8.5:92.045%) (Opera 9:92.045%) (Konqueror 3.5: ?) (Safari 2:
?))

]]]display

display http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2propsbasic-display (IE 6:30.556%) (IE 7:30.556%) (FF 1.5:75%) (FF 2:75%) (Opera 8.5:94.444%) (Opera 9:94.444%) (Konqueror 3.5: Y) (Safari 2:
?))

Oh god, rev
You're using tables

well, probably

That layout would be absolutely simple and easy to achieve using CSS

Which are "block" in HTML but not CSS?

And it'd work 10x better

in the interest of disclosure this is something my wife is trying to fix that someone else wrote at her job, i'm just helping with it
i'd be open to anything

rev, you're in duluth?
I'm in duluth.

i'm not the best help because most of my experience is from 1995
no joke!

Yeah!

i am, indeed

for example

I live over by the copper top.

trovster, if i recall display:block aint default type for div

hah, me too, pretty close- i live right below the intersection of skyline and kenwood

maybe im wrong

Wow, I could walk to your house in 5 minutes
Do I know you?

may be the only element that's block in HTML but not in CSS

I'm Brandon St. Germaine

I would have assumed tables, as I haven't looked closely at all those display-types (support'n' all)

3 feet tall, in a wheelchair

display block is default for divs

PMing you

because it is a 'block element'

hrmm, doesn't ring a bell, i'm this guy, but not in LJ-ish sepia http://userpic.livejournal.com/9997185/351199
i went to UMD for a while, still do but just one class at a time these days

What program are you using for irc?
I'm PMing you

No Alpha Channel

you are correct , benlong , i messed it up with position:static

http://projectx.daedeloth.be/images.php
Fix? Donnu.

xchat, you? i didn't get the last PM- have you id'd to nickserv?

bah

yeah, looks like you're not

anyone have a link to the iphone style nav css demo??

daedeloth, page is a mess in opera

really?

all; do BSG?

and, as you are makeing a some kind od web-appe , you could just forget about IE6

http://code.google.com/p/iui/ is the iphone nav

who cares about iphone

both;

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/test.html

@

we were talking about drop down menu navigtion, so iphone nav is somewhat extension of that concept

(spreadhiv.com…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2ot5rf ) | CSS: Valid [3 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/yuflzh ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

all; :O

nevermind i answered my own question

muhahahah

both; do?

RubberDucky132, thats one more reason why you should put him on ignoe

i believe it clears both left and right

it clears both left and right float

It pushes the element down below any nearby floats

damn ,, 2sek

not really sure what that means

If there are floated elements around, giving a div clear:both will shove that div down below the floated elements
Otherwise, the div would be beside the floats

]float tutorial

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/ , http://phrogz.net/css/understandingfloats.html

Ok
naughty thing opened in the same tab!
should be opening in a new tab
oh well

It's a little more complicated than that, because there are float scopes and stuff (called block formatting contexts in CSS), but that's basically the gist of it

Thanks

RubberDucky132 ?

indeed?

hows that , it should be opened in new tab
… or at least its how it works on xchat

the links ZofBot printed
they opened in a tab that had a webpage already open

which irc client you are using ?

chatzilla
doesn't usually happen

then i think you cant fix it

how can you make text bold?

p {font-weight: bold;}

? (I generate ids programmatically in a jsp tag)

ya

that is, an empty string for an id

just dont have more than one instance of the same id on the page

ta

will several "" 's count as duplicate ids?

p

i assume no
why do you have to specify a blank id?

I'm making a jsp servlet hosting tag to display a menu which automatically assign a "current" id to the link item which points to the current page among other things
s/assign/assigns/

gotcha

inside an html tag

nice, im not familiar with jsp
im a rails guy

can you define custom tags in .rhtml?

ya, pretty sure
im relatively new to it

learning rails is on my todo list for a while now

if you know how to program ruby, rails is easy
if you know perl, ruby is not bad

ya, new to ruby

ruby borrows like everything from perl, which is unfortunate at times

no perl, I know python though

rails is likea don't reinvent the wheel thing
dissimilar to php in that regard

i dont know much about perl, but ruby has been fairly easy to learn

also ruby it seems like when you go to forums, people are smart
php I always feel like i'm reading about the struggles of forever newbs

hi

ya, irc has been suuuuch a help with ruby

Dude, if IRC didn't exist I would know Ruby so much more intimately
The api docs don't run the risk of getting sucked into flamewars

im a learn by talking and doing, not by reading

can you center a table with CSS or do I need to use div align?

Do you need a table?

haha

tag only have the height of the content

quite possibly no

and not the size of the visible screen
how can i make the body tag takes the full height of the screen ?

dont use a table

RubberDucky132, tables are for data

unless you have data you need to display

Not for layout or design

screw it BSG I'm going to do what you are implying, wish me luck :3

highfive

We could be a poor-css-crime fighting team
You can be my sidekick, "bitchman"
Don't go divitus on us, though
You don't always need divs, either

span?

You can id and class any element

p, a, ul whatever

is rarely needed

its all kinda a div

i never got span

does internet explorer 6 support div's rollovers?

what is div short for?

depends
division or divider

cool

r1se, no

Divs should really only be used for major areas of the site

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
@

(spreadhiv.com…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/38ebw2 ) | CSS: Valid [7 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/22hh8o ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

r1se, are you talking pseudoclass :hover or Javascript?

]]]:hover

:hover http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2pseudoclasses-hover (IE 6: I)(IE 7: I)(FF 1.5: Y) (FF 2: Y) (Opera 8.5: I)(Opera 9: Y) (Konqueror 3.5: I)(Safari 2: Y))

pseudoclass
thanks for the link

hey guys, http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ , this fucks up in IE but works fine in firefox and dreamweaver
hey guys, a href="http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/"http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips//a , this fucks up in IE but works fine in firefox and dreamweaver
firstly, why is IE so fucking retarded

ive got it working on ie7 and firefox

why this damned element (.iniz) it looks so bad?
http://www.laquarra.it/la-quarra-it/

when did the "tables are not for layout" initiative start?

and just realized it doesnt work on ie6 lol

mphill22, since when dreamweaver is a mainstream web browser ?

- can this be laid out without a table so that everything is aligned?

well it IS wysiwyg. they try to stay true to that lol

besides , DW sould be called DreamReaver instead

no

my point being is the problem lies in IE and i dunno what it is, halp

There's a good form tutorial on listapart

so in order to acheive a rollover effect to a div, in ie6 i shouldnt use divs? or maybe js?

um, what?

thought so

About 2.5 years ago.

and BSG , in ALA aint even one flawless tutorial

cool

they all are buggy of filled with hacks

Thorn, please ignore mefisto. He's biased against hacks.

found the tutorial, looks promsing, thanks

hmmm

cssplay also has a good tutorial

r1se, use js , it will save you time and effort

Might want to crossreference in case mefisto's opinion has weight
WHICH IS DOESN'T

]hacks

http://xrl.us/riyq http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssHack http://w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/summary/

I'm fine with a hack that won't be depricated
such as condicons

do you have a link where i can read about a nice js rollover effect?

noone knows what the fuck is going on on my site? http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ (look at it in IE vs firefox)

i can take a look in bookmarks , but its usually very simple

can height be a %? and if so why does my div set to 900px x 100% not show but 900px x 100px does?

ie7 views it fine, mphill22

I hate js rollover effects… there is this one site here where you rollover the menu and it does a js dropdown menu that first rolls out three blank buttons, stalls a second, and then fades in the words

RubberDucky132, you need to learn how divs work
for example, not like a table

paotzu, that it must be done by some newbie

Yes i do

it's confusing at first, but pretty simple

divs are 100% width by default

aren't 99% of websites done by some newbie

until you set a width

i don't think 99%

100% height doesn't really work

not really, most of web pages are old

but it depends on how you define newb

what should I use instead?

Well, you shouldn't need anything to be 100% height
that's what background is for
100% of contained element, perhaps
but that doesn't work either

http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/
this works
i see no problems
it has 100% height

mefisto, what kind of link can we give RubberDucky132 for his first div tutorial?

what I want BSG is a white bar down the middle for content with darker bars left and right

um
2 column layout with a border in the middle?

so I set the darker colour to be the background

RubberDucky132, so you havent openend my url
am i right ?

sorry missed it
i was on the phones

I hate when I get more than one phone call at a time

]layout

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts , http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/ , http://glish.com/css/ , http://bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ , http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/

RubberDucky132, http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/

im looking now

also look at what I just popped

could you drop me a msg if you find something out? thanks!

oh .. forgot about you
uno momento r1se
do you have some basic skills in JS
?

yup
sorta
i made this a little time ago www.faunadiseno.com
its basic stuff though

but that basic is an object oriented

right

.. which is really good

thank you for the help guys
you're very kind

so , in short , you need to get a collection of DIV you want to react on hover

and a little function that works with onmouseover and it should do?

and then lopp through that list by adding actions div_mas_with_some_classname[i] = function onclick(){ this.style.background = red" ; }
you souldn be putting any JS code in html side
you can attach behaviours when page is loaded

great thanks for the help, im going to buy some food and start working on this !
bbl!

you can use some of this code , r1se , http://innonesen.se/test/l-13/
shame i dont have any larger scripts in examples
=/

ill take a look at the code thanks again!

My footer appears off center when the page is scaled, can someone help? http://zentatsu.com/bsg/

if I set #footer to 1050px, the corners are okay but the curve is off
If I set it to 1047px, the lines are on but the edges are off
might need to redo that graphic
def won't work at 750px
unless it gets put inside the 1050px div
and auto margins from those bounds

it's not the width that's a problem
It's that it isn't consistant no matter how you scale it
I need to lock it into place with the background locking, too
The graphic is exactly what it's supposed to be.
It just needs to stay in the right place

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
how do i grow the navbar if the editable region gets larger than the default navbar height?
rather how do i lock the navbar div to either the default height, or the height of the editable region if it is greater than the default

Mr. Zoffix, sir: I believe ZofBot should know about http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59

So, anyone got any ideas for my footer
?

set it to width 1047px, see how the graphics is off

I already explained this to you

but that lines up a little better

The width of the element has nothing to do with it
It's the fact that it shifts with the scaling of the page

well, when I changed it in firefox that works
er firebug

No, it doesn't
Scale the window
Even with your "fix" the window scaled still breaks it

sigh
1050px
scale window, it is still aligned
but you still need to fix the graphic

-_-

anyone have any ideas for em
*me

@http://wjbr.com/index.php?page=0

(wjbr.com/inde…) HTML: Failed (32 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/3ya4um ) | CSS: Failed (1 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/yvvxof ) [65 warnings] | DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1)

So why does that work, paotzu?

the div above it is set to 1050px
div#wrapper line 50, width: 1050px

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ i need the floating navbar height to change based on the height of editable content.. does anyone have any ideas or where i should look?

paotzu, that works
But it becomes offset at certain sizes
By a pixel
paotzu?

anyone know how I can take advantage of webkit for my safari users?
i'm having a hard time understanding the concept

Hi there. I do not understand why validator complaines on this: http://mkm-online.homelinux.org/linux.php. I also do not know, why the generated content is not treated as the rest of box. Could you please take a look?

i have an issue with IE (6 AND 7) where i get an unexplainable 'gap' between the border of a container and an element nested inside of it. however, it only happens when the content in my main column is 'shorter' than the content in my sidebar (equal height columns).
http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html vs http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-long.html
can someone *please* take a quick look and help me a little? i'm totally stuck

I have a div that has a right-margin of 2px and bottom-margin of 8px. However in IE 5.5, the right-margin becomes 8px, any ideas on how I might fix this? The divs are all floated left and displayed inline

(and of course everything looks fine in both firefox and safari…)

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/
Flannel, can you PLEASE help me figure this out?

whattup

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/
div#bottombg doesn't behave when scaled
it shifts around
I'm open to any solution that puts the rounded bottom securely underneith the body

how does that graphic no rasterize?
not
hm, i see it shift
by only a few pixels though, right?

mhmm

u sure ur graphic isnt just off?

No, I'm certain
And even if it were off, that means it'd be nudged the opposite direction if I "fixed" it

it looks off, cuz the corner meets the side fine…
i cant find anything in the css though

can someone please just take a quick look for me, see if anything strikes them?

yo
whats the deal

Mr. Zoffix, sir: I believe ZofBot should know about http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59" FYI it did even last year

oh, I must have missed it then

]clear @ Ace_NoOne

Contain floats: http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59 , www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

we need those aliases

wpw, keaneangle
wow
I was percentage placing the background stripes

ha

So of course they were nudging with the scale of the window
-_-

didnt see that

I literally spent 2 days trying to fix such a stupid, simple thing

that sucks…

http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html vs http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-long.html

Because I was focusing on the footer, not the whole page

i have an issue with IE (6 AND 7) where i get an unexplainable 'gap' between the border of a container and an element nested inside of it. however, it only happens when the content in my main column is 'shorter' than the content in my sidebar (equal height columns).

ohhhh so the bottom was fine, it was the repeat stripes that gotcha
ha

yeah
because they were a percentage, odd numbers made it nudge a pixel

yup yup

any clue when you will implement them aliases?

dur
Now I'm going to rewrite the whole thing so that it's a little more semantic than negative margins
-_-

Ace_NoOne, no.

cant help you with ie6 and 7, im on a mac, and it takes a considerable effort for me to get over to ie, dont have paralells yet

the problem is probably more cleaning up the db after it's implemented, right Zoffix ?

Ace_NoOne, nah
regexens
@http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html

ya, boo to neg margins, clogs ur css pores

well thanks anyway. also on a mac here.

how so

eh?

(www.zerosum.o…) HTML: Failed (1 error, see http://tinyurl.com/2z2b9s ) | CSS: Valid [12 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/ytdfok ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html)

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/

kk, will check

do you have os 10.4

yep

intel core duo?
got a new bug now
ur stripes are all the way to the left now

wha?
what browser?
reload one more time

ff 2 os x

that's really really odd
Can you take a screen capture

zapnap, so is the "footer" bit supposed to be red? Are you using red anywhere there at all?

Because it's not doing anything like that for me

sorry im watching an episode of 24, but had web dev toolbar and my ff just threw up
hang on

bah, ie is still nudging it

the #main area is just set to red so i could see what element was causing the gap
the issue is the gap
only when viewed in IE6/7
note that the test-long.html file doesn't show the gap because the main content area's 'height' is greater than the sidebar (Actual height not the equal column visible height). otoh, the test-short.html variant the gap is visible but only in IE6 and 7

capture in 10 sec.

the 'footer' is really just a faux footer i put in there to see where the #main area ended

http://www.qream.com/bsg.tiff

zapnap, don't really understand what you mean. Try {zoom:1;} or {overflow: hidden;} on wherever that gap is.
]z hl @ zapnap

IE hasLayout: http://haslayout.net/haslayout.shtml

]z ie extraheight @ zapnap

IE Extra Height Bug: http://haslayout.net/css/extraheight.shtml

what?
That doesn't even make sense, keaneangle

if i use overflow: hidden it'll "hide" the borders that i have set to a negative left value

its ok now
weird…

if you're looking at it in IE6/7 you'll see a 3px (or so) gap between teh border of the main content area and the inner div

Yeah, I had to replace the bg image

(inner left)

Absolutely sure it's good now, keaneangle?

ya
did u change anything?

zapnap, I see gaps everywhere (title for example) IE got this red thing. Make a screen shot or something of what it is supposed to be

if you look at test-long.html that looks the way it's supposed to
or if you view any of the above in safari

No, you just loaded at the wrong time, keaneangle

gotcha

the blue background area with the border underneath should extend all the way to the left border of the main content box to form a sort of 'title box' (#page-title)
in test-short.html it doesn't. there's a 3px gap (or so) visible only in MSIE 6 AND 7

zapnap, with "Page title"?

yes

zapnap, #page-title{margin-left: -3px;}

are you using any program like…front page to make it?

i've tried that, but will try it again.
no way

kk

zapnap, the problem steams from the fact that you have WAY too many divs. I don't understand why you couldn't just use the `border` property

it's because i'm trying to do the css drop shadow thing
(sans images)

why

setting padding-left on #page-title doesn't make any difference

zapnap, I've said margin

oop my bad one sec
ok that does seem to be doing it Zoffix. but why do i have the gap in the first place?
(guess i must have tried padding instead, totally my goof)

zapnap, too many divs
zapnap, and I still don't understand why you have so many divs there. What you got there I can do with 3 divs… not 19

soo…. n+1 divs and IE blows up? :p

zapnap, pretty much

yup

+floats

no idea how you'd do this in 3 divs

zapnap, heh, ok.. 4 divs ~

but, i'm admittedly not the css pro you are
well

zapnap, wanna see? (I won't do the footer)

well, simplicity is beauty when it comes to web design and css

also, keep in mind, this is code i've pulled out of a more complex layout to illustrate the issue
a layout with a main nav area, a more complex footer, a top header bar with some stuff in it, etc

so if its only gonna get more complex, dont make it worse, ha

so a lot of what you see are relics from that
i've just omitted some of the nested pieces. the structure is there for a reason.

i still dont understand why you dont use images
images dont have to be big bulky things

it may not be the cleanest ever but doing equal height columns plus div shadows plus liquid center can't be done in 4 divs :/
sure, point taken.

99% of my images i use are 1px thin and i just repeat them as background images

sure… me too. but when i don't have to use images i don't use images.
i didn't just start playing with frontpage this morning :p
but i'm no frontend engineer css guru either.

zapnap, one sec

sure man. i appreciate the tips.

ya, i didnt think you did haha, but i still dont understand why u dont use images

i'm still not sold that a -6 px margin is the solution though. cuz the thing is, if you look at the long version, it's the same layout.. just more text in the main content area. and that doesn't exhibit the problem. so when i apply the negative margin to that, it's giong to be off
load the short then the long and then back-button between the two… you'll note that the content area itself shifts

is there a good place to learn about columns?

down with those divs man

Any ideas about this one? http://pastebin.com/d75ff7743 I need an object with padding, but for some reason it changes the margin on the other side of the page (try the onclicks)

alistapart.com, but what about them do you want to learn?

i think the root of my issue is the way i'm doing equal height columns. because the main column behavior varies with the height of the sidebar relative to the main content area

i want to list data in them from a table
i think i want two columns and i want them to be even

just google css column tutorial
theres a bunch

and btw, it's off by 6px not 3. 6 being the number i'm shifting the table for the dropshadow effect.

so maybe it would be items A-F and G-Z but it would all depend on the amount of data between those letters
i might have to code
thanks

working thing
?
like a live site…pasting is only kinda necessary for scripting
server side i mean

any easy places to post?
the problem is only in IE, I forgot to mention that

cant help you there
im on a mac, no parallels either
zoffix might

Well how about this? http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d75ff7743

cpastebin is evil

ya it is
pastie.caboo.se/

why is pastebin evil?

]paste

http://paste.css-standards.org , http://www.webdevout.net/test , http://erxz.com/pb/ , http://sial.org/pbot/ , http://tnx.nl/sc