vectorT( a, a+N ); }

perfectly safe

that's only applicable to vectors

no it isn't

the same thing works perfectly for other containers as well

most containers have range ctors

I think he wants to go from a container to a staicly sized array…

Perhaps Bigcheese is advocating against using any near-containers at all.

C as_container(T const (&a)[N]) { return C( a, a+N ); }

C as_container(T const (&a)[N]) { return C( a, a+N ); }"

By your command.

yeah, you just need to write one per container

zeeeee, never heard of templates?

not with that

(a);

that's just one operation; the safe lib replaces a number of others

none of which are at all necessary unless you're doing things in dumb ways to begin with

which _ALL_ have to do with staticly sized raw arrays
which is dumb in a lot of cases

if you need speed, you don't want the checking that the _s functions do. If you don't, you should be using std

yum does work for FC4,

atrpms not atrpm

I did something to it before to cause this I recall

I might have fixed it.

there is absolutely, positively NO SUPPORT for fc4

mr700, because installing things by hand can really mess up dependecies etc with yum

VESA and i used the detected monitor

how will this happen?
if you don't use –force and –nodeps?

god damn that's even WORSE
don't EVER do that
the problem is hand-downloaded rpms MAY require further deps you don't also have downloaded
better to fix yum

mr700, well it happens if you are trying to install an rpm you have already installed, then it messes with yums logs cause it might try to install it even tho you already have it installed

[root@localhost yum.repos.d]# ls
ATrpms.repo fedora-extras-devel.repo fedora.repo fedora-updates-testing.repo livna.back livna.repo
fedora-devel.repo fedora-extras.repo fedora-updates.repo jpackage.repo livna-devel.repo livna-testing.rep

yeah

rpm WILL NOT BREAK dependancies

Wow, sorry about that large paste here

always better to fix yum

that's from my directory

that is NOT what I said

STOP, we're not helping you

:-)

opsec, WebDragon is being nice and helping me, so thanks.

grep '\[' /etc/yum.repos.d/ATrpms.repo

rpm will not install 2 times given package unless you force it, no way to break anything (unless you want to)

what you and he don't seem to realize is that you will not solve your issue

#[ATrpms]
[ATrpms]

fc4 is dead .. there ARE NO REPOS for it

dang… this neat flip-screen cube desktop effect doesn't change the bg until you have settled on the desktop for a second

opsec, enough please

What is the div between Fedora ( fc7xen ) and fedora base ( fc7 )?

32mb in ram

I need a 16mb option

ok (yum –disablerepo=ATrpms install dd_rescue) — exactly this

there are, I can point you to some. They ARE NOT updated, but there still are…

jpackage-fc
Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: jpackage-fc

so each workspace has a different bg, but the flip sceen cube shows the same face

livna 100% |=========================| 951 B 00:00
That's it

help you look?

just because they're no longer updated doesn't mean they stopped existing at the last place they left off

maybe livna got it?
WebDragon, very astute observation

yeah, thanks! ;

So true

ok (yum –disablerepo=ATrpms –disablerepo=jpackage-fc install dd_rescue) — exactly this

god damn morons

What is the div between Fedora ( fc7xen ) and fedora base ( fc7 )?

wait….you wanna run mysql on 16 megs of ram??…
wait….you wanna run php mysql web hosting on 16 megs of ram??…

Stuff is working here I think…

i'm gonna try

it would be way cooler if each desktop had its bg set before the cube flipped

you're a brave soul…….

walterwoj, do uname -r in both

one note on ATrpms.. i refuse to use it.. it's unsafe

dd_rescue

I could use some other db and samba

xen is for virtualization .. you don't want that kernel

and yeah, for future reference, ryanoe, avoid atrpms

it broke my machine at work one time… axel thought he should recompile a bunch of the X packages

So perhaps I have the wrong repo there

ok

WebDragon, it's now disabled so that's good then right? I won't use it

yuggy, /join #compiz-fusion compiz-fusion comes for fedora7

it may not be available for you in FC4

and he puts CPAN stuff into .rpm's and marks them as deps

openbysource, ty

you do realize that dd_rescue was never even built for FC4..

I am loving this effect!

or there's no dd_rescue for FC4…

that's a temporary disable not a permanent one — you'd have to set enabled=0 within the .repo file for the ones you want turned off

exit

I do now, that he's been unable to install it with a working yum

you can still rebuild it for FC4… but that's a tiny bit harder

Turned it off permanently now

thanks dudes

sorry, came in very very late here actually. what do you need to do? I kind of "specialise" in lower spec systems (needing to revive a lot of older systems that can't necessarily be upgraded due to cost, but still need to be modern)

WebDragon, what do you suggest I do quickly here?

you *might* be able to rpmbuild a more recent src.rpm for dd_rescue on FC4 but don't count on it

Add dd_rhelp to PATH or rebuild a src rpm?
where should I get that do you suggest?

I need to get a 486 running so we can use it at an ORG for db purposes… simple things

not sure which version of FC first started with it
but I'd definitely track down an SRPM built for a fedora release

http://dag.wieers.com/rpm/packages/dd_rescue/

I'm planning on developing either on php or OOoDB… you know, inventory and stuff

ha… it's not working dag has broken

dag has it?
doh
hang on a sec

the other PCs are in good shape

wow, really broken

There is nothing in there
Did you look in there?

no kidding
yeah just now

yea

anyway.. half a mo

Maybe another location would be better

w8 a sec

Sure
Does one of you run dag.wiers?

i didnt think dag had fedora packages any longer

How about here

http://ftp.iasi.roedu.net/mirrors/fedora.redhat.com/linux/extras/6/SRPMS/

I would try http://ftp.riken.go.jp/pub/Linux/dag/packages/dd_rescue/dd_rescue-1.11-1.1.fc3.rf.i386.rpm … If it installs fine (rpm -Uhv dd_resc……) and works - it's ok

you MAY need additional deps in order to build it

I found an FC4 src rpm here

I can't say for sure whether it requires later versions of gcc and whatever in order to build with rpmbuild; depends on what's in the spec file

http://dries.ylyssis.org/rpm/packages/dd_rescue/info.html

fc4 geez

dd_rescue needs almost nothing… glibc

Check it out

the url I gave you is from a fedora-specific mirror OF fedora itself

Downloaded it and it's a go

i'd trust that first before anything
then all you need to do is rpmbuild -rebuild dd_rescue*src.rpm

So try the FC src rpm?

yep, try building it - if it works that's the best way…

[root@localhost emger]# rpmbuild -rebuild dd_rescue-1.12-6.fc6.src.rpm
arguments to –root (-r) must begin with a

before anything else I'd try the one that actually was designed for one of the released versions of Fedora — 6 in this case
maybe it's –rebuild
my bad — been a while since I used rpmbuild

Tada! I'm loggedin to my fedara install!!!!
It's a mricle. Thank Opsec

It's doing something now
…

if it builds successfully you'll find the finished package somewhere in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/

dd_rescue-1.12-6.fc7.i386.rp
oh okay

then you can rpm -ivh it
and THEN you'll have a really working one

ok… in FC5 i had to call udevstart in my rc.local to trigger my custom udev scripts to hit the devices (since i had to modprobe them) … udevstart no longer exists… what should i be calling

and THEN you can stop using the one in your $HOME

yum localinstall dd_rescue-1.12-6.i386.rpm
There we go

and pray it works the rest of the way
good luck ryanoe

dd_rescue.i386 0:1.12-6
Complete!

disk recovery is always a voodoo art

I know..

true

don't forget to wave a rubber chicken over the motherboard before you start

I desperately need to recover this stuff

(:

I was only copying files into it when it just disappeared
nothing bad happened, and I rarely access these two drives
/dev/sda1 111G 93M 105G 1% /mnt/backup1
/dev/sdb1 111G 102G 3.2G 98% /mnt/backup
/dev/sdb1 111G 102G 3.2G 98% /mnt/backup
b/dev/sdb1 111G 102G 3.2G 98% /mnt/backup/b
the 98% is the questionable one that needs to be restored onto the other
the 98% is the questionable one that needs to be restored onto the other
Now I can try dd_rhelp right?

right.. the REAL dd_rhelp

sorry
hehe

;-) but I really enjoy .flac

localhost i386]# dd_rhelp /dev/sdb1 /dev/sda1 rescue.lo
Trying it now
It's doing it's thing

good luck bro

I'm also enjoying my .APE files

how you been otherwise? been a while since I talked with you last

I don't know why most of you guys are totallying snickering at me for FC4, so it's older

well, it's not seen a security patch in ages

I have been alright actually, just left a job about 2 weeks ago

no updates and no support for over a year

they recently end-of-lifed FC5 as well

kind of jerks..
I know

I gotta tellya, FC7 is luscious

It's just, to upgrade still, you basically need to reformat and reinstall each time which is a PITA

put it on my laptop
I've done upgrade-installs from FC1 through FC5 and not had a problem
never hadda reformat

Really?
That's good

really
heck I even upgrade-installed TO FC1 from RHL 9

ech… it has some rough edges, but it's better than anything else
bech… it has some rough edges, but it's better than anything else /b

agreed

I hope this all works out, I guess with dd_rhelp, it's supposed to only copy the good stuff that means it should be accessible
uI hope this all works out, I guess with dd_rhelp, it's supposed to only copy the good stuff that means it should be accessible/u
I hope that the stuff I was copying is the only corrupted stuff

the only part you trip on is where F7 comes in due to the libata changes

not the stuff that was on the drive
Libata changes?
What are drawbacks from FC7?

yeah, /dev/hd* is no more — it's been replaced with /dev/sd* even if not a scsi drive

Really?

really

yep

check the F7 release notes

What was the link for the NTFS readwrite support?

even an internal one that is IDE?

yes

fedorasolved.org

My new laptop that I am using now is a Dell Precision M65 with an internal sata drive

should be no problem

sata is sdx anyways

old laptop that has linux (P4M 1.0 Ghz ram) has FC4 on it with an IDE drive

wireless is the only thing that MAY trip you up there, but if you're lucky (I was) enabling NetworkManager will fix that without needing madwifi or ndiswrapper

I still need to keep XP SP2 on my new laptop for Autocad
See, I still would need madwifi, has that all been solved now with an integrated nice driver?

a newer lappy with a core2duo that has VT capability will enable you to run the Xen kernel

I remember with FC4 here with madwifi and my wifi card, it was a real PITA

depends on what's now part of the kernel

"Xen" Kernel? Sounds really soothing.

Xen/KVM would let you run windows in a virtual machine
potentially almost as fast as bare metal depending on the circumstances
they've made considerable advances — again, check the release notes for F7

[emger@localhost backup2]$ ls
reading directory .: Input/output error

doh

That's the current error I get
so that's why the need to use dd_rhelp

indeed

dying disk. Or kernel panic.

Kernel panic, has to be
I rarely use these drives, maybe 6 times a year

anyone here written udev rules?

back in a few

both drives are 1 year old

heh….that was a WebDragon panic..

ryanoe, means nothing

I have one or two, why?

So what's funny is that I just repartitioned and reformatted and now the "good" drive shows that input/output error

LOL

so what ?

okay WebDragon
see you back here in a few
I wonder why after starting the dd_rhelp
it now shows input/output directory in the other drive that was blank before I started the dd_rhelp process
I thought that dd_rhelp only copied the "good" data that was readable..
that was my point in using it

when i upgraded from fc5 to fc7 my IVTV related rules stopped working

I guess this input/output status will change when the process completes??

ah, what IVTV is?

do you mean which IVTV version.. or do you not know what IVTV is?

AFAIR there were some changes… maybe some files got renamed

nah… udevtest sees the rules files

no idea what IVTV is

IVTV is drivers for Hauppauage PVR cards
integrated into the kernel in revision 2.6.22

mr700, you your cable tv cable and inject it into your skin

seperate download+compile previous to that

:-)
what's failing?

found it
they renamed DRIVER== DRIVERS==

:-)
udev version 098 and later, right

Anyone here use dd_rhelp and dd_rescue?

I have used it… to rescue a DVD

Here is my question
do you have to ctrl-C the program running in order to see the valid files that it has copied?

you copy files this way? with dd_*
you should copy partitions/disks with it

reading directory .: Input/output error"
[root@localhost i386]# dd_rhelp /dev/sdb1 /dev/sda1

you don't need to format it…

This is the command I am using

ryanoe, dd and dd_rescue don't copy files; they image. wait till it's done

you must copy the image

Oh okay
So it's imaging the drive, ahh

when dd_* is done (or stuck forever)

I will wait until it is done

drive or partition, you decide

mr700, see it won't be stuck forever because I am using dd_rhelp which begins with the "good" data first, unline dd_rescue
which starts with the bad data first

nope… not true
dd_rescue walks the whole media
then retries the bad sectors AFAIK, but that's not important
when the copy is finished reboot
after the reboot use fsck.ext3 -C0 -f /dev/new_partition1
and if you are lucky… there will be some (all) files

nv = open source, nvidia= binary
yes?

if your directory structure is lost…
you will have lots of #123123918273 files in /lost+found
and… you'll have to guess what is what…
got the picture?
yep, nv = open, nvidia = closed

kk
upgrade reverted me to nv

livna will catch up in a day or two…

they already have
i upgraded from fc5 to fc7

really?

i added livna before i yum updated

Wait, you want me to format the drive once the imaging is done?
Won't that remove the image??

the updated stuff is in there already

whatever you do, don't try to write to your original partition / disk… you can always try another approach…
no

I've never heard of doing that
I thought I could mount the image

just to reboot in order to make sure your kernel knows about your partitions… not sure if it is needed in case you copy partitions

Just reboot, no need to format then?

no
you need a new partition with the size the old one had
that's all, no formating is needed at all
you can even copy the old partition to a file and loop-mount it
dd if=/dev/fd0 of=fd0.img; mkdir fddmp; mount -o loop fd0.img fddmp; ls fddmp

hmm

Why would a yum update not update to the latest (2.6.22) kernel, but rather choose the 2.6.20?

what kernel are you using? xen?

cause you have exclude=kernel in your configs

kmod mess ?

or that ^ (SG's suggestion)

frozty_sa, it's all stock fc6
Southern_Gentlem, which config? Some yum config?

oh. fc6..

Boy this is going to take a while on a 120GB drive I take it

Southern_Gentlem, but it upgraded from 2.6.18 to 2.6.20?
Southern_Gentlem, so it's clearly not exlcuded, it just picked the slightly older kernel

I would be mounting the source drive right, where the "good" data is being sent to?

GmLB, yum -d 0 list kernel
GmLB, uname -r
GmLB, uname -a

Southern_Gentlem, well uname -a returned 2.6.20 after I did a yum update
Southern_Gentlem, ergo me asking why it didn't pick 2.6.22

GmLB, paste the result
you can cut the hostinfo

Southern_Gentlem, well I just reloaded the box to stock to test this again, so it's back at 2.6.18
Southern_Gentlem, "Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6"

GmLB, yum -d 0 list
GmLB, yum -d 0 list kernel
the secoiond one

Southern_Gentlem, sure, 1sec

haha our puppy just SAT on our kittens' head!

but did it squash its little head (in his best web hosting twitty bird voice)
Kazan, smart pup it knows that cats are drain bamaged

lol

Southern_Gentlem, it shows 2.6.18 as installed and 2.6.22 available in updates…
Southern_Gentlem, so perhaps all is well now- but what would have made it not find it before? Could a mirror be out of sync?
Southern_Gentlem, 2.6.22 was just released on the 8th I think

GmLB, when we ask for info we want to see said info not your interetation of the results
uGmLB, when we ask for info we want to see said info not your interetation of the results/u

Southern_Gentlem, forgive me- http://rafb.net/p/MU1dwG38.html

Will yum -y update do anything to stop a box from rebooting?

No.

TJTrot, if you have conflicting repos enabled yep

Southern this is a fresh install from CD.. there still a chance?

yes
TJTrot, -y is never a good idea unless you definitely know what you are doing

ok.. how about just plain yum update? haha

wow, my pcm mixer level persisted after reboot

clear

strange

the difference is that without the -y yum will let you review the packages before updating

ok

hi!
how is everyone

heartburn
headache

Midol should help u djohngo

I'm having trouble getting updates for Fedora 7, whats a text based command to get updates?

Doesn't anyone read docs anymore?

umm
same as its always been: yum update

that crashes also
rpmdb open failed
This is a fresh install, haven't changed any settings

can you paste the full output of 'yum update' in a pastebin link?

g'night all

http://pastebin.com/d72c06106
also for some reason FireFox randomly goes back a page for no reason

backspace

only using the touchpad and while surfing it will go back

buggy touchpad

speaking of firefox, is there any way to make it so that clicking the scroll wheel down makes the scroll-slider thing where you just move the mouse cursor up and down to scroll? if that makes any sense

in firefox do 'about:config' search for 'mousewheel.horizscroll.withnokey.action' and double click on it and set it to 0

ah, that's weird

for your rpm issue, as root: "rm -f /var/lib/rpm/__db*" then "rpm –rebuilddb" and try yum again after that completes.

is there a work around for libata in fc7 not working with your hardware?

Nope.

cannot open Packages index using db3 - (-30977)

so i guess i have to switch distros
thats too bad
fedora was good
oh well

Or you could use FC6.

there is a good chance it won't work in the other distros if it doesn't work in 7
what is your hardware

not really
its just the kernel in fc7 had issues
as long as they dont use libata or at least an expirimental version its fine

somedude, stay with fc6 for now

but will i be able to upgrade to fc8

we are working on getting a respin out the door

oh
but i mean if new fedora versions come out every 6 months or so and its been 3 months already since the last one then isn't there a good chance theyll just put the development effort into f8

FC6 and F7 are still being maintained even though they're working on F8.

ya but its not a matter of being maintained
its will i be able to upgrade from fc6 to f7
f8 i mean

i just upgraded from fc5 straight to fc7

and there where no issues?

ugh

one minor thing where a /etc/yum.repos.d/ file for created as rpm new but that was easy to fix

i tried to install centos as well as fedora 7, no luck

did you get that error on the rebuilddb? or was that just a repeat of the error from your pastebin?

that was an error from rebuilddb
http://pastebin.com/d3e4bb594

Yum update stopped abruptly on another box due to a power outage- and rerunning it now gives me "Error: python-devel conflicts with python 2.4.4-1.fc6" How can I resolve this to continue the yum update?

package flash-plugin-9.0.48.0-a is already installed
can i force this to install
with yum

man yum

odd. This is a new F7 install? You have had no power outages or other issues?

there isnt an obvious answer to that in man yum

also, do: '/etc/init.d/yum-updatesd stop' and see if that helps to get the rebuild working?

super clean install, I had to change a few network options for my network card but that's all
same error

Is there anyway to recover from a power outage during a yum update?

run yum again?

bah upgrading broke my autologin

lol

oh.. apparently because the xserver is crashing

somedude, do you want to force the reinstall of the flash package only?

ya

then use the rpm command

isn't there yet a Xen patched kernel for the 2.6.22.1-fc7 kernel ?

instead of yum

i had to remove it and reinstall it to do the rest of the updates
ya but where does flash-plugin come from
i dont know where the rpm is

flash plugin comes usually directly from the adobe site
as it is proprietary
afaik

the outage may have left you with two versions of the python rpm installed. use rpm -qa 'python*' to find out.

Ask XenSource.

streeter, ah, so should I remove the newer one to resolve it?

weird. Not much else I can think of to do… you might try a quick reboot to make sure nothing is holding open the rpmdb…

thats so annoying why does it say it needs to update when its the same version

to be safe, I would remoce both and then "yum install python"

good question. posible answer: because the maintainer of the package did a bad job

you do realize that yum in written in python?

oops

streeter, oddly enough, rpm -e returned: "error: "python-devel-2.4.3-18.fc6" specifies multiple packages"
streeter, how could that be considering i specificed the version and everything?

they may be differernt arches… are you running a x86_64 distro version there?

btw, don't remove python. yum won't work it you do

streeter, well then I shouldn't remove both, lol?
nirik, yeah, x86_64
nirik, should I be specifying the arch?
nirik, how can I do so, just another .x86_64 at the end?

yeah, so it might be one is i386 and one is x86_64.
yes.

or –allmatches
or somethingn like that

you are just removing python-devel right?
you may also look at installing 'yum-utils' and then looking at the man page for 'package-cleanup'.

does nero screw up iso burning?

we cant know what's inside a proprietary software mind.

damn, Anvil that should be a tagline

ok
the image is fine

hi im a noob. does anyone know if i can get wirless on my thinkpad to work?
i dont know what chipset it uses. its a T61 thinkpad a/b/g wireless

brohken-work: does it show up when you run lspci in a terminal?
brohken-work: what version of fedora are you running ?

WebDragon i don't know. i didn't get the thinkpad yet. just ordered it but was considering running fc7 on it

difficult to say whether it'll work without it handy

oh i just found it
its not intel, seems to be aetheros

I got lucky with my wireless in the laptop my boss got me recently — all I needed to do was enable NetworkManager after the install and it found it immediately and let me configure everything
no need for madwifi or ndiswrapper

what is madwifi/ndiswrapper?

brohken-work: but there's a ton of wireless related info on the fedorasolved.org site — you might find info there

driver managers?

different ways of getting wireless working
_if_ there's support for it in the kernel, you'd only need to enable NetworkManager service… if not, then you look towards either madwifi or ndiswrapper
have a looksee around fedorasolved.org at the wireless related info and if you find mention of your specific hardware you'll have some instructions nearby on what to do

hi guys

WebDragon can you help me a bit
im not sure what i would need to do
the model number is 40Y7026
http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126266&highlight=40Y7026

I'm not sure either considering that the hardware isn't in your hands yet and you don't have F7 installed in order to test things with
all you can do at this point is read up on the various difficulties and solutions and plan ahead as much as possible to have a game plan

thanks

my first suggestion would be, install, and then enable the NetworkManager service and see if it works
if it doesn't, then look deeper into madwifi and/or ndiswrapper
brohken-work: there's a good bit of info here: http://fedoramobile.org/fc-wireless/ (apparently this spun off, from the original fedorasolved.org wireless related wiki)
but don't go running off in several directions at once before trying NetworkManager

hi all

Guys can someone guide me , I am try to install KDE 4 for Fedora 7 for using it in parallel with kde-3.5

DoctorPepper, kde4 hasnt been released yet

can anyone tell me how the fc3 install figures out whether the media it's trying to load is a proper fedora cdrom?
or venture a guess

FC3? o0

legacy support :-/

solomon, we dont care
fc3 is DEAD

there is no support for FC3 now. ;( Upgrade.

Im out of ideas with ATI on Fedora 7 86×64. Everything seems to work fine, no errors, I ve followed the guide and still DRI is off. any ideas?

DieRatte, what video card

Radeon X700
PCI Xpress

i don't get to decide to upgrade my company's tens of thousands of users, i'm just supposed to try and update this custom fc3 cd and thought somebody in #fedora might have information

ati dropped support alot of their cards

.discinfo

I tried FC3 years ago and didn't like it.. F7 has come a really long way

aha! thanks!

Southern_Gentlem, ati tells me to get version 8.40.4 for that card, which is most recent I think

but keeping thousands of users on fc3 borders on criminal negligence

all users must be required to install gentoo by hand in order to use their computer

indeed, considering FC3's not had a security update in ages

i agree.. it's not my decision.. however the next step that has been decided is to migrate to debian

oh, fun. enjoy that

debian is a good distro.

well, i am a debian fan, an ubuntu user, and a former debian developer, i think i can handle it

have fun retraining people in what's different though

all due respect to fedora… i have never used it aside from supporting fc3 so i can't really say anything about it
this is an appliance

ahh that's considerably easier then
lucky guy

yeah, we try not to let our users mess with anything besides our web UI
byeah, we try not to let our users mess with anything besides our web UI /b
of course if they can navigate our horrible UI, they can probably adapt to _any_ OS change

ROFL
well you're welcome to stop by #web anytime if you need help refinishing your web UI with some modern css/html markup

any new fedora wireless solutions to recommend?

it's since i tried putting our cd building system onto svn that the problem started… i'll bet svn didn't pick up the dot-file. it's not present in the new broken cd

I dont know what to do. I wish I was seeing an error, that I could at least fix. But there is nothing

http://fedoramobile.org/fc-wireless/

it's not so much the markup that's the problem (though it's ugly)… it's just badly designed… we give users plenty of rope to hang themselves with

DieRatte; what's the problem?

you shouldn't make configuration options change-able when most conceivable changes to them would break stuff

downhillgames, no DRI with ATI driver

we'll often provide feedback in redesign situations as well
LOL yeah

DieRatte; paste your xorg.conf
DieRatte; in the pastebin i mean…

i'll keep it in mind whenever they let me get to UI, if i'm the one they put on it anyway

downhillgames, just a sec

ty Southern_Gentlem

Hey, at least these taglines aren't as boring as There is Nothing by Ozric Tentacles from There Is Nothing, right? (:
*chhuckle*

downhillgames, http://rafb.net/p/oaUsde68.html

ty

ey |DrJef|

ego sum bono sed tu es fatuum

DieRatte; the "Module" and "Files" and "Monitor" sections can go… is your card AGP?

downhillgames, PCI express
I understand Files and Module, but doesnt it need a Monitor ?

DieRatte; ok. if you remove the "Monitor" section make sure to take it out of your "Screen" section as well. the less specified the better these days. Fedora auto-loads anything you need.

tu es obesus et fatuus

^
knoman; this is an English channel

downhillgames, alrite, Ill try that

???

DieRatte; i'm not sure if it'll fix your problem directly but yeah… less confusion anyway
knoman; #Fedora = English

english?

Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

meus latine es malum

ty ajax

visi

DieRatte; i need to reboot a minute. brb

im trying to get mysql to start and im getting a cant create PID error

AJaymn; to start it, as root, type: service mysqld start

downhillgames, gah

DieRatte; O_o yes? lol

looks like me mate wont let me repair his xorg right now
Ive been trying to long it seems
I guess I'll have to annoy you again tomorrow

DieRatte; do you have remote access or do you need to boot him off to try?
you're not annoying, silly

downhillgames, Ive got remote access, but not root.

ah

and after some hours he is kinda unwilling to let me reboot xorg now

well that's 1 thing to do. other than that, make sure the drivers are newest… it should work…

^-^

Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon.
[FAILED]

AJaymn; #mysql unless someone else here knows. timeout… idk
brb

downhillgames, *sigh* I will. Trying to catch you tomorrow
see ya

np
miss me?

*crickets*
(:

Having problems gettting the printer to work in a Wine prog. What can it be?

cries, even
there is probably some kinda special stuff you need to do to make your printer work with WINE.
that's NOT helpful, i know… but yeah… it's not Fedora

can windows work with printers served by a CUPS server ?

over SMB

Or IPP.

hi ivazquez

Hey.

OKi…..this smels like posting in a forum. But thanks for the help.

try providing some actual information
you might get help

I'm trying to use Picasa for printing fotos.

mmmmm sushi

Picasa is available for Linux

Yeah I know but it has to run in Wine, and I can't get it to print.

it has to? why?

because the official release still has it using WINE
it's official, but not native

Don't ask me. Is the only version I can find.
Is the a unofficial version running in KDE?

hiya

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9556554213.html
a href="http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9556554213.html"http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9556554213.html/a
http://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/yum.html
anyway… uh.. idk about setting up a printer… should google…
it worked at my friend's house with his HP printer out-of-box

I blame gremlins

yeah… Gizmo Was Here

Guys can someone guide me , I am try to install KDE 4 for Fedora 7 for beta testing

yay, Beryl

anyone know a goos place to look for scientific secure linux web hosting rpms? someplace like rpm forge?

what do you mean by scientific linux?

i just installed dhcpd, and when i "service dhcpd start" it always failed, any idea why ?

your /var/log/messages knows why

ok, thx

Hi guys
I need some help to configure the DNS in my Fedora
I have not any Xwindow
can anyone help me?

okay guys

you dont have an x-server?

here is what i get when ia ttempt to boot up centos or fedora
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1150/1119502850_808292b075_b.jpg

those are easy to get

scientif linux the distribiution…based on redhat…

you also don't have fedora
you have rhel
we've already been round and round on this

no I have installed fedora 7

ok.. i have a problem.. updated from FC5 to FC7 … now my xserver crashes attempting to use an openGL app on nvidia binary driver

Now I have got a Fedora
distro without xwindow

uname -a

fedora comes with a fairly decent x-server

Fedora release 7 (Moonshine)
I know but I'm creating a web server
for my projects
I would like to configure the Internet connection

are you at the computer now?

yes

does it have local network connectivity?
ie can you reach it from another computer that has an x-server?

I have already set the IP, subnet mask and gateway

right, so you can reach it from another computer

yes i have a VPN
with the DELL Remote Access Controller DRAC

i dont know what that is
can you or can you nto reach the computer from another networked computer?
nto=not

not directly

directly is irrelevant

The DRAC is a network card attached on the server

i see
sounds like a bit of a hazzle. how do you plan to connect to it later on?

that helps the administrator to manage the server

i still dont get it. can you connect to this computer frmo another computer, using ssh?

I can connect with a VPN

has the recent gstreamer update pushed to stable broken jokosher by any chance?

to it

then get on another computer, connect to it with ssh, and run system-config-network, an duse that computer's x-server

earthw0rm, updates-testing or updates?

I can't do it

updates

you just said you could
what happende since then?

#crazy_pills

I can't connect to the server hosting by ssh because it is a service opened in the Server
but the server is not connected to the internet

that makes no sense. the ssh is supposed to be opened on the server.

only the DRAC card
can connect to it
by a VPN

how are other poeple supposed to connect to the webserverer then?

magic.

through the DRAC on vpn?

no one is connected to the server

in #opsec they autoban you.

is NEW

were you just checking i wasn't moaning about testing?

surely it will be availbale at some point?

can't cure stupid.

for people to connect to the webserver?

at the moment the system is not connected to the internet

opsec; i'm not about to enter into a discussion about that. we can agree to disagree, can we not?

why not connect it?

no.

I have to configure at least one network card

i disagree that we can agree to disagree

i finally got m VM stuff done

you just said you had ip address, netmask etc..

and I don't know How can I configure the DNS

there is no DNS configuration for netowrk cards
they have various ip address host related parameters

rolaids?

and you said you had those?

antacids .. for upset stomach .. due to stress

I have set the ip, subnet, getway it's all?

enough to connect to it, yes

ah

ok I'm trying again

sup opsec

r0b-: your fedora dvd is on the way
mr. postman has it now

lol
:P

WTF i am so tired of this install

sent to israel, russia, and michigan today

im going to throw it out the window121211

do you have a dhcp service you could set it up with temporarily?

MEM_BUFFER INVALID

well im still trying this VM tools crap

tomorrow is south africa, india and argentina

what is that?

brohken-work: format and install windows

brohken-work; what's wrong?

opsec yuck. i think i'd rather use DOS. gotta get fc7 working

opsec; stop not-helping.

anyone having problems with nvidia binary driver crashing the moment an openGL app touches it

no, did you try the livna version?
it supposedly has better mojo

/ignore opsec
enjoy.

i am using the livna version

opsec; /quit bye. enjoy more.

i think it may be conflicting with mesa libGL

fresh air is amazing. seriously.

just got some .. you know what's even better? people that don't come in whining but provide FACTS about their problems so they *can* be helped

but i cannot uninstall mesa libGL duo to dependancies

instead of incessant bitching and moaning

opsec; i couldn't agree more. and what makes them whine more is not getting people to ask what's wrong, but telling them to shut up.

i got it working

there are numerous places where people can learn how to ask proper questions

Kazan; what's the error message?

oh no i think it froze

for those of us that help daily it's REALLY a god damn PITA when people come in with that crap

opsec; like the topic? tell them to type /topic and click the link, perhaps

nothing useful

Kazan; humor me. paste your errors and outputs to the pastebin

sarcasm is one of the only ways to deal with it effecitively and still let me have my sanity

it's nothing useful.. all it says is two lines
lemme cause it to generate the error

did you get the right kmod ?

yes
i'm not a newb
hmm… i think it may just be mythfrontend… stand by
just two lines.. one mentioning xf86sig handler or somesuch

when might fedora 7 release a kmod-nvidia-xen ?

Kazan; i suggest you check logs and outputs (like dmesg, etc) for some real errors.

ask livna

that's why they exist

oh right dmesg now i feel like a newb!

ok

there is an ongoing discussion on various xen- and nvidia forums

hi, does anyone know anything about whether there's any realtime stuff in the fedora kernel?

ok.. nothing in dmesg that is useful

last i checked the writing on the wall was that nvidia developers were interested

so any patches release to get latest drivers work with latest xen kernel released officialy by fedora ?

Kazan; check /var/log?

in a minute
glxgears isn't crashing it
i think it was just mythfrontend

darn… lol

i think the work flow is more like a) nvidia catches interest b) nvidia compiles it c) livna includes it in repo
its barely started at a=
*a)

is it agp=0 or agp=off for the kernel opt to turn off internal AGPGART

while i see your point with regards to pissing people off .. it's my answer to not having any form of structure here
no on is required to read anything .. no one looks at sites that were designed to help them
they just come in and bitch .. or use phrases like "my computer is broke HALP!"
it gets old

fair enough. you know what i could say in response but there is no point. you are right to say they don't have any point to their whining but i am wrong to judge how you feel about certain things

so i intend to have a little fun with them
and maybe torture them a bit

nothing to do

"nothing to do?" A: When yum reports "nothing to do" what it's really saying is that the "package may already be installed" (or it doesn't exist), so there's nothing for it to do. (ask directly: rpm -q package).

the problem persist

opsec your a jerk and terrible addition to the fedora community

brohken-work; you need to shut up.

what problem?

brohken-work: you have no idea ..

downhillgames i was trying to help you

I have set the IP, SUBNET and Gateway but the connection doesn't appear

is there anyway to turn off ALL services for a certain run level with chkconfig ?

i don't need "help" discussing nicely with opsec.

and i don't need to do anything for you btw

for yourself.

thats a problem. and its not dns related.
one of the parameters is wrong

I have checked many times

btw what do you mean with "the connection doesn't appear"

I have tryed to ping www.google.com

*sigh*

and the reply is Host not reachble

did you miss the point about connecting to it from another computer
ping your gateway

for myself what?

its *ip address*

claude_monet_imp; can't connect to the internet? paste "route" "ifconfig" and "cat /etc/resolv.conf" into the pastebin
brohken-work; drop it.

ok, downhillgames

you drop it

is there anyway to turn off ALL services for a certain run level with chkconfig ???????????????/

why not save yourself the trouble and start the xserver?
you can stop it afterwards you know

I can't do it

i dont appreciate when i ask a question in #fedora and the answer is to use windows

the installation is without X

claude_monet_imp; if you simply need to configure the NIC(s) without X, run "setup" as root.

brohken-work: needless to say, #fedora is not about your appreciation

Ok I do it

yum grouplist available

I come back quickly

hope that works well enough for you.

identify X window system, groupinstall it

its a community that should help users. just because im a noob am i not welcome?

system-config-network-tui

brohken-work; you insult those you do not listen to. have you read opsec's points?

now-now, io said appreciation, didnt i

opsec; is that the same thing?

-o

i read his asshat reply to me. wasn't funny
you know what. whatever
ubuntu it is
peace

terminal user interface for system-config-network .. i.e. no xserver

opsec; oh i know what tui is, but does it do the exact same thing as "setup"?

not sure ..

it will launch automatically frmo system-config-network, but i fhink there is no dns entry in there
s/f/t/
gah

After a fresh install of Fedora 7, which were the next two non zen kernel updates please? I am reinstalling fedora and want to manually install those first two kernel updates for a QA reason.
After a fresh install of Fedora 7, which were the next two non zen kernel updates please? I am reinstalling fedora and want to manually install those first two kernel updates for a QA reason.

E-mu: browse an update repo mirror

that will not work because it shows only the newest ones

brohken-work: go back and read your initial comments on entering this room ..
bah ..

opsec; even better. he ignorantly left.

oh i thought it would store all

good.

the echo icon theme is pretty sweet

3228 was one but just before that was one and then the next one I think was 2.6.21.1-41.fc7 so I want to know which ones were before that

Then check koji.

E-mu: look in koji

too many on koji

E-mu: filter by tag (update-candidate, update….)

not sure how to do that?

koji.fedoraproject.org/koji
click the "k" for kernel

ok. apparently X-Chat2 hates theme changing

there are only 3-4 pages of kernels

XChat isn't what it used to be any more

well… yeah…
i liked it better a few years ago

few things are

i do so wish my X-Fi worked in Linux. I mailed them and they gave a generic reponse :/

ok thanks

and pointed me to "a page with a promise"

does the default Fedora 7 kernel have lm_sensors implemented?

Most, yes.

the default install of fedora 7 doesn't use compiz does it?

No.

metacity i believe

Some redhat guy has reassigned one of the bugs I reported to compiz..groan…I'll email him

For GNOME, yes. KDE uses kwin.
Which one?

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=250568
They've closed the thing too
GROAN

ok
the problem persist
I'm pasting the screenshot

http://rafb.net/paste/

I can't do copy the text

did you ping your gateway yet?

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5538/networkcardfd2.png
yes I have ping the gatway but it reply Host not reachable

and you pinged it by ip address?
not by hostname?

yes of course

what address is your gateway?
good, sorry.

Activating desktop effects does use compiz.

89.186.92.221 ?

yes
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3292/routets1.png

ivaquez, thanks

hi…i wonder if there is a vmware appliance of fedora?

checked cables?

yes
and are connected
correctly

are you at the computer now?

yes

sambiase you looking to run vmware under fedora?

try arping the gateway

arping?

nope…want to run fedora as a VM

yes..
and tell if it replies or not

what is it?

i think i found…is it the latest .. fedora core 6 ?

I haven't seen one specifically, but you should be able to use one of the live images under it.

it's a bone you have been thrown, make good use of it

i think this is the one … http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/618

nothing to do

"nothing to do?" A: When yum reports "nothing to do" what it's really saying is that the "package may already be installed" (or it doesn't exist), so there's nothing for it to do. (ask directly: rpm -q package).
b"nothing to do?" A: When yum reports "nothing to do" what it's really saying is that the "package may already be installed" (or it doesn't exist), so there's nothing for it to do. (ask directly: rpm -q package)./b

it didnt reply?

That one was community-contributed.

what is it arping?

man arping ?
it will basically tell if arp lookups work
which admittadly hardly ever helps resolve issues like this. but its good to get it out of the way.

is that one a lot different than another ver of fedora?

ah ok

http://bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/01/os_quiz/apple_dos.jpg

You know what's a good thing to do? Take advantage of search boxes.
http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/901

http://bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php

your interface seems correctly configured

…thank u…

mine says UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST though

ah and i answered ~3 questions as i was split on them… http://bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/01/os_quiz/debian.jpg
debian Linux.
so really oldschool DOS or a simple, secure Linux distro… i'll take it

i don't get it.. what is debian?

lol

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/454/pinggatewayyh7.png
nada
also the arping doesn't works!

cat /etc/resolv.conf

when asked for the output of uname -a he says "fedora 7 moonshine"

umm

no opsec it is a fedora

you have a hat?

now now

4 EDT 2007 i686 athlon i386

someone may have been *drinking* the moonshine
one would think..

wait.. wtf.. am i running an SMP kernel on a single processor machine…

an smp *enabled* kernel

ah

if your processor is not dual core or you do not have multi processors .. then the smp flag will be ignored

gotcha
i didn't realize they finally fixed that stuff

it's just enabled by default now instead of building a separate kernel just for one flag

used to be you could barely find working versions of a lot of packages for smp builds

i don't seem to recall that
i only have multi proc machines

moonshine where????

wasn't recently opsec

i'm not recently running linux either

fc5 had separate smp kernels

claude_monet_imp, your 'screenshots' look like they're from vmware or something - not a real machine - so your problem could be elsewhere
bclaude_monet_imp, your 'screenshots' look like they're from vmware or something - not a real machine - so your problem could be elsewhere/b

opsec; what are you running on your Xeons now?

fedora of course .. removed the preinstalled rhel

I have a real machine

then what did you mean up there^?

a Dell poweredge 1950

i meant .. i've been running fedora linux since rh5.2
anyway .. off to mail fedora to south africa

?

but why? I has one…

but someone else doesn't

valid point *nods wisely*

packaging it up now ..

why can't they download a copy…?

i don't ask .. i just mail

internet = expensiiiiiiiiiiiiiive

opsec; i need a copy of… j/k
have fun. i need to mail some PC parts out

heh….I need to mail myself to bed shortly

"Hi! i need fedora because i can't download .. thanks, webmaster"
no address .. no other contact info

thanks downhillgames
like a challenge?

no idea

whispers…

i doubt he'll be receiving a copy .. since i don't play email host tag

hahaha
you'll probably be receiving a flame mail in ~3 weeks about why didn't you post his fedora…

i'd be amazed if you play *anything*

it should be assumed you'd need to include *some* mailing address, how else are you supposed to receive it?

magic

3rd person shooters
doesn't help though.

Resident Evil is a great game.
game series… whatever

nganga!

but why?

opsec, validate a webform instead?

email is clear enough.
if someone said to you "hey you can get fedora for free by sending your information to getfedora@fedoraos.org" .. would you just say "hi" ?

have I set also the DNS?

i think the email and the numerous instructions given here should be enough.

i dunno. email-only is kinda personal.
i gotta get to know you first

haha
that good enough?

321 elm street, apt 2b!

maybe they think their warm personalities should bubble through automatically and then you'll know where they are?

freddy? is that you?

as just proven above ^^ by zcat …… :-/

i do have a webform i made .. i may use it
i'll set it up tonight.. for now .. off to mail a few fedora dvds out
i'll set it up tonight.. for now .. off to mail a few fedora dvds out

!

!?

^ryum^r^r

!=

but why?

hi

yo

lol..
whats the minimum hardware requirements to run fedora 7?

if (downhillgames == "") ….{exec(boom)}

gordo ??

A Pentium 3 with 128MB of RAM
for Xorg

fat

back already?

fg opsec

ok.. but does it have some other kinda meaning? why would my GF call me Gordo ?

i-hate-myself; anything above that is gravy

im blatently not fat

she might think you are

lol

maybe she meant _phat_

translate.google.com

hahaha

hm ok.so with a laptop (pentium 3, 800mhz ,256mb ram) i will be able to make gud use of it?

yeh translate says fat.. but I was wondering if a native language speaker would shed more light lol

i-hate-myself; good? idk… it'll run alright

like maybe it means Im a greasy bastard or something

watch t3h language, ixion_uk

ok ok thx

I think Ill tell her the same thing

erm…..

haha

ja froz?

you know those things that when you look back upon them you can see they were a bad idea?

lol

evening, btw ixion_uk

ixion_uk; yo tengo un gato in mes panteloons

hey
which means ?
ive seen that panteloons word before but nothing can translate it

i have a cat in my pants

haha
doesn't that hurt?
the cat, I mean….poor thing….

don't be so literal

:-p

what does that mean lol

nothing
moving on

touche

what is "you" in spanish?

tu
i think..

yeah

what is "your"

dunno?
tunno?
tu~no?

su ?

no, ixion_uk….that's for becoming root
……..

lol

ixion_uk; text her: tienes un gato en tus pantalones

I'll give her a good su

"you have a cat in your pants" haha

why?

EvilBob, because you need to reverse the polarity of /dev/null
mui mal

zcat

…is sexy.

lies

truth, i'm afraid :/

muy malo*

malo = ?

bad

my brother's becoming a teacher. teaching ESL.

I need to learn spanish

my sister works at a bank. my finances suck. lol
what's your point?

short shrivled and always to the left?

downhillgames, an inside job.

hello VileGent

hello

ola

sheesh….usually one gets kick ed *out* of bed…:-?
kicked*

ooo. so Miro (democracy player) should officially hit the testing repo tomorrow: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761

zcat; i JUST searched yumex for "miro" haha

miro the tv thing?

yes.
what is koji?

ooops ran out of battery again

free tv? whats the catch?

downhillgames, been running my custom rolled rpm for the past month. couldn't wait.

zcat; would your custom-rolled rpm work for me?

ixion_uk, like itunes, but video-only, and for all platforms

hello, daMaestro

downhillgames, possibly. http://jasonfarrell.com/fedora/7/

yeah but the quality of whats on there cant be that good if its free?

hello downhillgames

quality of content… not video quality

wow, stop using free software
would you say the quality of free software is not that good because it's free?

so is that hte catch ?

;-)

zcat; hope yours doesn't complain for firefox 2.0.0.3

so im saying that people who make tv stuff do so to make money
so whatever on there cant be that good?

downhillgames, er, yeah, depends on 2.0.0.5

im asking really.. I have no idea

zcat; should i compile from source (SRPM)?

ixion_uk, podcasts/vidcasts have been popular for ~3 years now. you haven't checked any of it out yet?

nope

ixion_uk, there's stuff from "amateurs" as well as the oldguard media co's

so are you saying that one should be using used software because it's been tried and tested?

NPR, etc

ixion_uk; don't feel bad. i barely have some of it is very interesting, though.

anyways all, I'm almost on my way

ill check out this miro thing
is it p2p ?

no.

or streamed from a server somewhere

sleep well, or work well, or chill well (whichever TOD it is where you are)

trioxid, no, /ignore me

effectively it's just an RSS reader/media player

cool ill check it out tomorrow
sleep time for now
night peeps

cya ^_^

are you guys talking about Democracy?

yes
now called Miro

maybe she meant to send it to her 2nd bf?

fat bastard!

downhillgames, doesn't work here
i filed a bug a while ago

daMaestro; yeah. see zcat's link

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=244889

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=250044

duped!

Silicon Park…

wow.. that is pretty trivial bug

downloading Ep1 now
yeah, you'd think it would just get re-packed

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761 is what i'm trying

1 more time. what is Koji?

the fedora build sys
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Koji

doh. thanks
5mins for the Silicon Park episode, woot. i get to see if Miro will lock, stall, have no video, play or kill Xorg somehow lol

Hi, using Fedora 7 x64 and I'm trying to use Audacity to import an MP3 file but it says it wasn't compiled with MP3 support, even though it can export in mp3. How can I import MP3 files?

http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi

yess… Miro works here

good link, EvilBob

miro is hott

lolz

EvilBob, wow.. according to that fedora has very little mindshare

I find Fedora sooo much easier than Ubuntu
less nags, etc
so i was supprised, too, daMaestro.
Democracy can't play this file. lol

downhillgames, it can play anything xine can play.

interesting.
sec.

downhillgames, aka… yum install xine-lib-extras-nonfree
;-)

daMaestro; have some caffeine. you're slow today

"today"?

it still wont play
ah. needed to be restarted
WISH MY X-FI WORKED
thank you VERY much, zcat the official (patched) just locked on me when i tried playing anything.

What is the NetworkManagerDispatcher service used for? Should that be an enabled daemon or only when NetworkManager is enabled or is that indeppendent of NetworkManager?

downhillgames, cool. a bug report.

E-mu: it can run stuff when the network changes

isit on by default?

zcat; i've yet to try the testing package… it works… i'm not "fixing" it now.

how do I install hpssd?

AndyCap on a fresh install of F7 is that daemon enabled?

no, E-mu. i just installed a couple hours ago and it's off by default.

E-mu: no, NM and NMD are not on by default

indeed

E-mu: not sure if NMD is needed for the default setup on fedora, but I don't think so

thanks

handy if you want to run software etc when the netconnection comes up

i seem to turn on NMD, AndyCap is it not needed to do actions such as dhclient?

well if you install NetworkManager I can only assume that must either get installed or enabled not sure?

they do not auto-enable
http://fedoramobile.org/fc-wireless/network-manager/

thanks thats actually what I needed to know

is LIRC busted with 2.6.22?!

fg? what's that mean?

I have found that at least with recent releases, if you have the NetworkManager service up, and you use the ifup command, you get error messages from ifup because the dhclient initiated by the NetworkManager and the dhclient initiated by ifup interfere with each other. It does end up
successfully getting an ip address though.
Anyone else see that?
bug or feature?

bug?

makes sense, so just set the interface to ONBOOT=NO
and let NetworkManager do it

I seem to not remember seeing this issue with the original f7 dvd install, even with onboot=yes
hmm, I should go prove that…I'll go boot my usb hdd with the original f7 install and if I can prove degradation I'll report a bug

**yawn** what did i miss

chocolate rain.

If it worked before you could sort of call it a bug, but NetworkManager is really designed to do it's own thing outside of ifup/ifdown stuff. Since it can do things like WPA where as ifup/ifdown don't.

ftp://mirror.anl.gov/pub/fedora/linux/releases/7/Fedora/source/SRPMS
?

didn't it get renamed?

Missing Dependency: firefox = 2.0.0.3 is needed by package Democracy

to miro

need to notify the maintainer
seems to be in the repos still

the rename hasn't drifted to the stable repo yet.

don't see miro in the repos

it's not there yet.
hmm CentOS or Debian Stable for my server… i'm about to go install

centos

i do enjoy working with RedHat but the debian packages are nice. :/
the package selection, that is

opsec, http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761
Democracy …

opsec

ooo. so Miro (democracy player) should officially hit the testing repo tomorrow: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13761

wtf is Miro ?

it's a media player and RSS reader

hmmm Internet TV?

yeah, pretty much

hows the quality of internet tv?

great

i just download all my TV off usenet

at 1680×1050 everything looks fine.

is it like youtube-quality

better

hi how do i change the ip to dhcp via console please

no way

skylark_server; system-config-network-tui
moeSizlak; way

commercials?

nah. it downloads the eps and plays them
if it's in a RSS feed, it can get "it"
miro can download it
go look it up
http://www.getmiro.com/

where does it get them from?

the same place podcasts come from, i think

well do it have EVERY show, even HBo showtime, etc ?
cus i need to be watching weeds and entourage

so download it on usenet and watch it with Miro

s/do/does/

it's a media player as well as a video downloader….

i need to find the tech specs of this alleged "Internet TV"

daMaestro thanks.

you could always try paying for expensive shows and what not
they don't get made for free

well i pay $24.99/mo for usenet and get everything under the sun including movies

illegally… more or less
i use usenet as well.

stupid question time. I have a fc3 headless server (yea, hit me again), it's remote and I cant physically update it (yet) and i need to update tcl and python on it. as yum repositories are offline, how do I gou about this? just dl the tcl and python rpm and hope for the best?

thanks for the help

Kitsune_, not much more you can do.

foreground ?

Kitsune_; /topic. it's not supported anymore

Kitsune_, or you could just install new versions in /opt

down, yea, I know (hit me again

So you won't disturb the running system.

whats the incentive to release live TV for free w/ no commercials?
i just dont get it

moeSizlak; why is that a need?
if that happened, TV wouldn't be TV.
actors couldn't get paid…

not sure what you mean

downhillgames, what are we talking about?

is there like a TV-Guide for Internet TV?

pembo13; we, being me and moeSizlak are talking about internet TV
moeSizlak; what is "Internet TV"

1 * opsec & fg opsec … you

thats what im trying to figure out

shin, just one of the users needs the update/uses it, so unless you are saying that it might take down the whole system (bad

can I give absolute positioning to an element without moving it horizontally?

cpu[1 x AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+ @ 2.13GHz w/ 512 KB L2 Cache]
whroops!

I remember when all my Atari STe had half a meg of RAM total
*had was

hehe
man, xchat got all the info about my boxen
ether[Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet]
video[ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AS [Radeon 9550] @ Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 741/741GX/M741 Host]
heh
enetdata eth1
netdata[eth1: 1079.3 MB Recieved, 55.7 MB Sent]
that's in 1 day 3 hours.. I wonder what it gets up to when I'm running torrents and the boxen is up for a month ~
mem[Physical : 1011MB, 18.8% free | Swap : 2863MB, 60.3% free]

sounds like windows :p

fuzzy76, right! I was running it recently in vmware. If I do, it make my box slow :/
until freakin' reboot _

bad vmware I suppose

bad windblows I suppose
os[zoffix@zoffix, Linux 2.6.20-16-generic i686]

well, vmware should ofcourse release all associated memory and processes to a guest os when the guest os is shut down

fuzzy76, yeah I know what you are saying, I have no idea why this happens. If I leave windblows running in vmware for a night.. my box will be hardly responsive in the morning :/

Hello chaps!

when background-image:url(../images/nav-bg.jpg); the image repeats, but when i set it on "no-repeat" no image shows at all. What other parameters can i use here?

Anyone had a problem with IE6 ignoring width:auto;?

Because background-image takes ONE property.

trovster, what alternative can i use ?

]css background @ MidasWS

css background: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#propdef-background

http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_background.asp

The spec is, erm, better, but meh

thanks trovster, that did the trick

]w3schools @ SimonNetEx

http://www.w3schools.com/flash/flash_inhtml.asp | Complete bullshit: http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_intro.asp

Oh dear.

]schools

Explore the intricacies of HTML and CSS here: www.blooberry.com/ , www.htmlhelp.com/ , http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ , www.brainjar.com/ , www.htmldog.com/ , http://css.maxdesign.com.au/

How can you get the same effect in css as setting the align property for an image?
No, that's not illegal.

can someone take a look at something for me? i have a weird IE disappearing border problem when a boundary div (relatively positioned) is set to a negative left value
http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test2.html
oddly, if i set a width on the contentbox, the border problem disappears. but suddenly the equal height columns i've got working stop working and the main area height shrinks up. totally confounded…

why is the image before "Articles" non-transparent in IE, but not in FF? http://eco.pats.no/playground

Quick question, how do you format cells in a table to have a border of 1px between them (not 2px because each cell has a 1px border adjacent)

hi.
absolute to #Menu div, my menu seems different between ie and firefox.here is link http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ how can i fix it ?

lots of questions, few answers in here

any idea?

yeah, what a great channel -.-

absolute to #Menu div, my menu seems different between ie and firefox.here is link http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ how can i fix it ?..

Well…
]know xhtml

Are you using XHTML? READ THIS: http://www.webdevout.net/articles/beware-of-xhtml , http://hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml , http://www.webdevout.net/articles/validity-and-well-formedness

Why transitional and not strict

problem is about doctype ?
so?
so, problem is about doctype?

meh

it almost ever is the problem
*NEVER

what will i do?

Doctype is almost NEVER the problem… ok!

What do you think about setting for all divs such style as default - overflow: hidden ?? Will it slow renderending?

Can't say for certain, but I think yes, it will — but again, don't really know. It would almost certainly depend on the browser's implementation.

http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ links dont same ie and ffx

Yeh, you keep repeating that…

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
in firefox this page displays properly, but in IE there is a white what seems to be 1px boreder between the intter cells
does anyone know what is causing this?

is it possible to use a gif image host for a custom cursor?

http://83.170.73.104/~yigittest/ref1/ why my menu seems different on ie and ffx ?

Yeh, you keep repeating that…

looks the same to me.

Flannel:are you sure?

no, but if you would mention what youre seeing as different, it'd make it easier

ok
my menu is on ie, under 3 -5 pixels from firefox location.im seeing it.

why text-indent shouldn't works there, please? http://www.laquarra.it/la-quarra-it/la-quarra-chi-siamo/la-quarra-appartamenti/tonino-la-quarra/
p class="des"a href="…"text/a

To which dark gods of CSS must I sacrifice to get Firefox to centre form legends? http://tachyondecay.net/php/dev/vsns/addnews.html

what's the best method of getting a background image in a safari text input?
i know that you can't really place one traditionally, but sites like apple.com have them - i just can't figure out how to recreate the effect

im looking for some nice horizontal dropdown menu implementations
maybe using jquery

Why li:hover + ul {} sorted.

lols
i wouldnt call that an implementation
perhaps with some whiz-bang action

How is that not an implentation? That's THE code you need for a dropdown menu.

ok, implementation with demo online that uses some shiny modern animation or other sparkly effects

http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81
ha, have fun.

yea that looks bad

What… ?

that link

What… ?

hte menus on the link you just posed

This is a long time ago… but I have a css question!

Hahahaha. Oh jesus.

IE6 PNG problem

Drop-down menus; no thanks! Some websites seem dead set on using drop-down menus for navigation, but I see so many problems with them I really can't understand why they persist. In this article I list out the main reasons I find them problematic and why I would always advise against their
use.

The CSS containing the immages

dae lemme guess, no alpha channel?

It's not about the dropdowns, and that site doesn't even have dropdowns, and the menus aren't "bad". It's an article about the lameness of dropdowns.

yeah probably. Problem is I don't know anything about alpha channel stuff

trov — i am supposed to replace some existing, crappy vertical navigation flash menus with some reasonable, css, horizontal menus
that will work with *
thats the kinds of examples im looking for
dae - you gotta put some IE centric active somethingorother code in there

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/ See More: http://www.google.com/search?q=png+ie+fix

Is it possible to use indexed PNGs instead of RGB PNGs? That's how I solve most of my PNG transparency issues with IE
You lose alpha transparency though

yeah but I need alpha for the shadows

indexing is really hard to match up sometimes

actually I'm just the coder, my graphic guy needs them

Ah

a) Don't use PNGs b) Remove certain channel (not sure which it is) to even out colour matching with hex c) Use the fix stated above.

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

Have you tried suckerfish dropdowns?

im looking at the superfish right now
im sure ill end up making my own anyway, just surveying right now
bim sure ill end up making my own anyway, just surveying right now/b
relax, trovster
thats no way to stay in the web game

I agree that dropdown menus aren't great, but they can be useful in certain cases

Sure it is.

i agree tach… I'm just trying to modernize some small critical elements of a new clients site, before we migrate its codebase to the next generation
totally needs a full redesign but thats impractical at this point

how does one make a textarea the size of its containing element?

Guys
I need help

lol

look at this page

um, dont think so

what?

i dont think you can do that with any certainty

… wow
so … in summary … CSS sux?

sure

100%; height: 100%;?

no, that doesn't work

I know that width works; I've never tried setting height

tach i think all thats dependent on font etc

doesn't account for padding/borders

Ah

plys each browser represents the box differently
ala scrollbars, etc

Yes, styling form elements can be a pain
Kill scrollbars :p

romes if you wanna see change, check out whatwg forms

hmmm

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/

Instead of fitting the textarea to your container, can you fit your container to your textarea?

crappy part is, I'm not using my own forms, I'm styling a Joomla module. heh.

the repetition model is pretty cool idea

can i have a class that floats right above another class
so in the class below it the text wraps it
it works in firefox
but not ie

can you say that again?

hold on

the text wraps what?
the float?
put the float after the class you want the text to wrap around

http://pastebin.ca/647645
right now that top one goes in and the bottom class text wraps it in firefox
but not ie

reverse the order

and that is the only way i can set it up , i cant put the class within the blah class
if i do that sky it just goes at the bottom of the blah class

i dont have IE sorry cant look at the issue
seems that your doing it correctly tho

Anyone alive around here?

]question
hrm

]ask

Just ASK! Those asking to ask are risking axing. Don't try the water. Don't try our patience. Don't be dumb. Just ask your question and wait.

Wow

trovster, any ideas on my problem?

what a welcoming

sky has you covered..

sigh

there we go

do yo understand what i am trying to do?
and is there a solution

trovster how about a little bit more respect and less condescension

what should I use to stop browsers assuming horizontal align of centre (FF assumes left, IE7 assumes centre)

}reset
]reset

]zip

* { margin: 0; padding: 0; }. You'll save yourself the confusion over quite a few strange element and browser spacing differences later on. * == http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#universal-selector

bah

I apologize for the solicit, but if anyone is interested in a web developer position, please send just your resume to humansky@princeton.edu, CSS and XHTML a must, XML/XSLT, Flash, and JavaScript a bonus

]reset needs to be added… :s

i'm using that already
but it doesn't sort out alignment

trovster, is it possible to have a class above another and it goes in the one below?

Are you talking about TR/td/th ?

in firefox it does

who is that directed at trovster
just use names
its far less confusing

you need to have the content before the image

there's a reason to use names, particularly when 5 people are chatting at once
have a code sample?
or the actual site to look at?

So… who were YOU talking to… haha

sky, even if i was to reverse them, then it just goes under it

its just an empty table

If there is too little space on a line for the floating element, it will jump down on the next line, and continue until a line has enough space.
Content, background, and borders of inline elements should go in front of the float. Background and borders of a block element should go behind the float, but the content of the block element should go in front of the float.

well it's not empty exactly but heres the site http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

sky, it would work fine, if i put it within class blah http://pastebin.ca/647645

well, i guess you dont have to have it second

but i cant in this situation

make the img display:block

sky, that class that is being wrapped is not an image
its just text ads

oh
then you might wanna spec a width on it
and still use displayblock

ya that does not good

umm, in http://bessey.no-ip.biz/CSS/customcal.css you have body text-align: center;
do you want it not centered?

correct
damn is that in the second style sheet?
yep right thanks fixed it

start with one stylesheet till you get it set right, then split it based on need

Will do

and get the web dev toolbar for firefox

no, get firebug

now how do I get those links to go next to each other instead of above?
http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

ok, i've a stupid question. i've a lot of experience coding, but not much in design like CSS. i have a page that works fine in everything we've tried but IE 6, but unfortunately we've a lot of folks still using that. it's a min-width/width sort of prob. my question is- can i/how do i set to
one property the value taken from another elements property? e.g. max-width: parent width; ?

rev
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width.html

hmz I can't seem to fix the alpha layer problem… or mmy IE4Linux doesn't work

how do i make content inside of a div centered
like vertically align the text so its centered, same padding on top as on bottom

Here's a better link, rev http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/000892.html

dont use padding, use height

line-height: sameasdivheight;

but vertical-align: probably works to

no , it wont

vertical-align only works on block level elements

no

how do you make divs go next to each other instead of stacking?

float

it works only on table-type elements

"table-type" is block

what?

its not the same

Yes it is. Stop talking.
left; all of them
all; div after them

vertical-align aint working with displat:block , you ASSHOLE

WTF

mefisto, stop talking.

vertical-align *doesn't* work on *any* block elements

thanks that works, but hypothetically what if I wanted them centred

vertical-align only works on inline elements and table- elements

i started an arguement :V

Then what am I thinking, Nanobot?

Read the spec

BSG, stop talking

is a table-cell element, not a block element

Ah.

so yes.. centred float?

.

RubberDucky132, you'll have to center a wrapper of your floats

lmao

Floats should be wrapped anyway.

line-height: sameasdivheight; is there any way to write this as a variable

ok

or do i need to hardcode the pixel size

No mphill22

http://innonesen.se/test/l-2-txt , RubberDucky132

Also, there's a difference between HTML "block" elements and CSS "block" elements.

ok BSG, thankyou!

CSS isn't a programming language

this is the link http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/demo/kirby/ ; it works fine in O9, recent WebKit, Safari, FF 2, IE 7, but in IE 6 setting min-width or width to 100%, but it's 100% of the width from two other points

In HTML, "block" pretty much means "not in the flow of text" more or less. It's also a way to organize elements in the DTD.
In CSS, "block" is a display type

thank god, because that'd be one sick sort of torture; i'd rather code in befunge than CSS

And some elements that are "block" in html aren't "block" in CSS

]]]table

table http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-html#support-html401-table (IE 6:90.152%) (IE 7:90.152%) (FF 1.5:94.318%) (FF 2:94.318%) (Opera 8.5:92.045%) (Opera 9:92.045%) (Konqueror 3.5: ?) (Safari 2:
?))

]]]display

display http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2propsbasic-display (IE 6:30.556%) (IE 7:30.556%) (FF 1.5:75%) (FF 2:75%) (Opera 8.5:94.444%) (Opera 9:94.444%) (Konqueror 3.5: Y) (Safari 2:
?))

Oh god, rev
You're using tables

well, probably

That layout would be absolutely simple and easy to achieve using CSS

Which are "block" in HTML but not CSS?

And it'd work 10x better

in the interest of disclosure this is something my wife is trying to fix that someone else wrote at her job, i'm just helping with it
i'd be open to anything

rev, you're in duluth?
I'm in duluth.

i'm not the best help because most of my experience is from 1995
no joke!

Yeah!

i am, indeed

for example

I live over by the copper top.

trovster, if i recall display:block aint default type for div

hah, me too, pretty close- i live right below the intersection of skyline and kenwood

maybe im wrong

Wow, I could walk to your house in 5 minutes
Do I know you?

may be the only element that's block in HTML but not in CSS

I'm Brandon St. Germaine

I would have assumed tables, as I haven't looked closely at all those display-types (support'n' all)

3 feet tall, in a wheelchair

display block is default for divs

PMing you

because it is a 'block element'

hrmm, doesn't ring a bell, i'm this guy, but not in LJ-ish sepia http://userpic.livejournal.com/9997185/351199
i went to UMD for a while, still do but just one class at a time these days

What program are you using for irc?
I'm PMing you

No Alpha Channel

you are correct , benlong , i messed it up with position:static

http://projectx.daedeloth.be/images.php
Fix? Donnu.

xchat, you? i didn't get the last PM- have you id'd to nickserv?

bah

yeah, looks like you're not

anyone have a link to the iphone style nav css demo??

daedeloth, page is a mess in opera

really?

all; do BSG?

and, as you are makeing a some kind od web-appe , you could just forget about IE6

http://code.google.com/p/iui/ is the iphone nav

who cares about iphone

both;

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/test.html

@

we were talking about drop down menu navigtion, so iphone nav is somewhat extension of that concept

(spreadhiv.com…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/2ot5rf ) | CSS: Valid [3 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/yuflzh ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

all; :O

nevermind i answered my own question

muhahahah

both; do?

RubberDucky132, thats one more reason why you should put him on ignoe

i believe it clears both left and right

it clears both left and right float

It pushes the element down below any nearby floats

damn ,, 2sek

not really sure what that means

If there are floated elements around, giving a div clear:both will shove that div down below the floated elements
Otherwise, the div would be beside the floats

]float tutorial

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/ , http://phrogz.net/css/understandingfloats.html

Ok
naughty thing opened in the same tab!
should be opening in a new tab
oh well

It's a little more complicated than that, because there are float scopes and stuff (called block formatting contexts in CSS), but that's basically the gist of it

Thanks

RubberDucky132 ?

indeed?

hows that , it should be opened in new tab
… or at least its how it works on xchat

the links ZofBot printed
they opened in a tab that had a webpage already open

which irc client you are using ?

chatzilla
doesn't usually happen

then i think you cant fix it

how can you make text bold?

p {font-weight: bold;}

? (I generate ids programmatically in a jsp tag)

ya

that is, an empty string for an id

just dont have more than one instance of the same id on the page

ta

will several "" 's count as duplicate ids?

p

i assume no
why do you have to specify a blank id?

I'm making a jsp servlet hosting tag to display a menu which automatically assign a "current" id to the link item which points to the current page among other things
s/assign/assigns/

gotcha

inside an html tag

nice, im not familiar with jsp
im a rails guy

can you define custom tags in .rhtml?

ya, pretty sure
im relatively new to it

learning rails is on my todo list for a while now

if you know how to program ruby, rails is easy
if you know perl, ruby is not bad

ya, new to ruby

ruby borrows like everything from perl, which is unfortunate at times

no perl, I know python though

rails is likea don't reinvent the wheel thing
dissimilar to php in that regard

i dont know much about perl, but ruby has been fairly easy to learn

also ruby it seems like when you go to forums, people are smart
php I always feel like i'm reading about the struggles of forever newbs

hi

ya, irc has been suuuuch a help with ruby

Dude, if IRC didn't exist I would know Ruby so much more intimately
The api docs don't run the risk of getting sucked into flamewars

im a learn by talking and doing, not by reading

can you center a table with CSS or do I need to use div align?

Do you need a table?

haha

tag only have the height of the content

quite possibly no

and not the size of the visible screen
how can i make the body tag takes the full height of the screen ?

dont use a table

RubberDucky132, tables are for data

unless you have data you need to display

Not for layout or design

screw it BSG I'm going to do what you are implying, wish me luck :3

highfive

We could be a poor-css-crime fighting team
You can be my sidekick, "bitchman"
Don't go divitus on us, though
You don't always need divs, either

span?

You can id and class any element

p, a, ul whatever

is rarely needed

its all kinda a div

i never got span

does internet explorer 6 support div's rollovers?

what is div short for?

depends
division or divider

cool

r1se, no

Divs should really only be used for major areas of the site

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
@

(spreadhiv.com…) HTML: Valid ( http://tinyurl.com/38ebw2 ) | CSS: Valid [7 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/22hh8o ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

r1se, are you talking pseudoclass :hover or Javascript?

]]]:hover

:hover http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2pseudoclasses-hover (IE 6: I)(IE 7: I)(FF 1.5: Y) (FF 2: Y) (Opera 8.5: I)(Opera 9: Y) (Konqueror 3.5: I)(Safari 2: Y))

pseudoclass
thanks for the link

hey guys, http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ , this fucks up in IE but works fine in firefox and dreamweaver
hey guys, a href="http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/"http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips//a , this fucks up in IE but works fine in firefox and dreamweaver
firstly, why is IE so fucking retarded

ive got it working on ie7 and firefox

why this damned element (.iniz) it looks so bad?
http://www.laquarra.it/la-quarra-it/

when did the "tables are not for layout" initiative start?

and just realized it doesnt work on ie6 lol

mphill22, since when dreamweaver is a mainstream web browser ?

- can this be laid out without a table so that everything is aligned?

well it IS wysiwyg. they try to stay true to that lol

besides , DW sould be called DreamReaver instead

no

my point being is the problem lies in IE and i dunno what it is, halp

There's a good form tutorial on listapart

so in order to acheive a rollover effect to a div, in ie6 i shouldnt use divs? or maybe js?

um, what?

thought so

About 2.5 years ago.

and BSG , in ALA aint even one flawless tutorial

cool

they all are buggy of filled with hacks

Thorn, please ignore mefisto. He's biased against hacks.

found the tutorial, looks promsing, thanks

hmmm

cssplay also has a good tutorial

r1se, use js , it will save you time and effort

Might want to crossreference in case mefisto's opinion has weight
WHICH IS DOESN'T

]hacks

http://xrl.us/riyq http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssHack http://w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/summary/

I'm fine with a hack that won't be depricated
such as condicons

do you have a link where i can read about a nice js rollover effect?

noone knows what the fuck is going on on my site? http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ (look at it in IE vs firefox)

i can take a look in bookmarks , but its usually very simple

can height be a %? and if so why does my div set to 900px x 100% not show but 900px x 100px does?

ie7 views it fine, mphill22

I hate js rollover effects… there is this one site here where you rollover the menu and it does a js dropdown menu that first rolls out three blank buttons, stalls a second, and then fades in the words

RubberDucky132, you need to learn how divs work
for example, not like a table

paotzu, that it must be done by some newbie

Yes i do

it's confusing at first, but pretty simple

divs are 100% width by default

aren't 99% of websites done by some newbie

until you set a width

i don't think 99%

100% height doesn't really work

not really, most of web pages are old

but it depends on how you define newb

what should I use instead?

Well, you shouldn't need anything to be 100% height
that's what background is for
100% of contained element, perhaps
but that doesn't work either

http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/
this works
i see no problems
it has 100% height

mefisto, what kind of link can we give RubberDucky132 for his first div tutorial?

what I want BSG is a white bar down the middle for content with darker bars left and right

um
2 column layout with a border in the middle?

so I set the darker colour to be the background

RubberDucky132, so you havent openend my url
am i right ?

sorry missed it
i was on the phones

I hate when I get more than one phone call at a time

]layout

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts , http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/ , http://glish.com/css/ , http://bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ , http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/

RubberDucky132, http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/

im looking now

also look at what I just popped

could you drop me a msg if you find something out? thanks!

oh .. forgot about you
uno momento r1se
do you have some basic skills in JS
?

yup
sorta
i made this a little time ago www.faunadiseno.com
its basic stuff though

but that basic is an object oriented

right

.. which is really good

thank you for the help guys
you're very kind

so , in short , you need to get a collection of DIV you want to react on hover

and a little function that works with onmouseover and it should do?

and then lopp through that list by adding actions div_mas_with_some_classname[i] = function onclick(){ this.style.background = red" ; }
you souldn be putting any JS code in html side
you can attach behaviours when page is loaded

great thanks for the help, im going to buy some food and start working on this !
bbl!

you can use some of this code , r1se , http://innonesen.se/test/l-13/
shame i dont have any larger scripts in examples
=/

ill take a look at the code thanks again!

My footer appears off center when the page is scaled, can someone help? http://zentatsu.com/bsg/

if I set #footer to 1050px, the corners are okay but the curve is off
If I set it to 1047px, the lines are on but the edges are off
might need to redo that graphic
def won't work at 750px
unless it gets put inside the 1050px div
and auto margins from those bounds

it's not the width that's a problem
It's that it isn't consistant no matter how you scale it
I need to lock it into place with the background locking, too
The graphic is exactly what it's supposed to be.
It just needs to stay in the right place

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/
how do i grow the navbar if the editable region gets larger than the default navbar height?
rather how do i lock the navbar div to either the default height, or the height of the editable region if it is greater than the default

Mr. Zoffix, sir: I believe ZofBot should know about http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59

So, anyone got any ideas for my footer
?

set it to width 1047px, see how the graphics is off

I already explained this to you

but that lines up a little better

The width of the element has nothing to do with it
It's the fact that it shifts with the scaling of the page

well, when I changed it in firefox that works
er firebug

No, it doesn't
Scale the window
Even with your "fix" the window scaled still breaks it

sigh
1050px
scale window, it is still aligned
but you still need to fix the graphic

-_-

anyone have any ideas for em
*me

@http://wjbr.com/index.php?page=0

(wjbr.com/inde…) HTML: Failed (32 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/3ya4um ) | CSS: Failed (1 errors, see http://tinyurl.com/yvvxof ) [65 warnings] | DOCTYPE: HTML 4.01 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1)

So why does that work, paotzu?

the div above it is set to 1050px
div#wrapper line 50, width: 1050px

http://spreadhiv.com/~mphillips/ i need the floating navbar height to change based on the height of editable content.. does anyone have any ideas or where i should look?

paotzu, that works
But it becomes offset at certain sizes
By a pixel
paotzu?

anyone know how I can take advantage of webkit for my safari users?
i'm having a hard time understanding the concept

Hi there. I do not understand why validator complaines on this: http://mkm-online.homelinux.org/linux.php. I also do not know, why the generated content is not treated as the rest of box. Could you please take a look?

i have an issue with IE (6 AND 7) where i get an unexplainable 'gap' between the border of a container and an element nested inside of it. however, it only happens when the content in my main column is 'shorter' than the content in my sidebar (equal height columns).
http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html vs http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-long.html
can someone *please* take a quick look and help me a little? i'm totally stuck

I have a div that has a right-margin of 2px and bottom-margin of 8px. However in IE 5.5, the right-margin becomes 8px, any ideas on how I might fix this? The divs are all floated left and displayed inline

(and of course everything looks fine in both firefox and safari…)

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/
Flannel, can you PLEASE help me figure this out?

whattup

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/
div#bottombg doesn't behave when scaled
it shifts around
I'm open to any solution that puts the rounded bottom securely underneith the body

how does that graphic no rasterize?
not
hm, i see it shift
by only a few pixels though, right?

mhmm

u sure ur graphic isnt just off?

No, I'm certain
And even if it were off, that means it'd be nudged the opposite direction if I "fixed" it

it looks off, cuz the corner meets the side fine…
i cant find anything in the css though

can someone please just take a quick look for me, see if anything strikes them?

yo
whats the deal

Mr. Zoffix, sir: I believe ZofBot should know about http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59" FYI it did even last year

oh, I must have missed it then

]clear @ Ace_NoOne

Contain floats: http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59 , www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

we need those aliases

wpw, keaneangle
wow
I was percentage placing the background stripes

ha

So of course they were nudging with the scale of the window
-_-

didnt see that

I literally spent 2 days trying to fix such a stupid, simple thing

that sucks…

http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html vs http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-long.html

Because I was focusing on the footer, not the whole page

i have an issue with IE (6 AND 7) where i get an unexplainable 'gap' between the border of a container and an element nested inside of it. however, it only happens when the content in my main column is 'shorter' than the content in my sidebar (equal height columns).

ohhhh so the bottom was fine, it was the repeat stripes that gotcha
ha

yeah
because they were a percentage, odd numbers made it nudge a pixel

yup yup

any clue when you will implement them aliases?

dur
Now I'm going to rewrite the whole thing so that it's a little more semantic than negative margins
-_-

Ace_NoOne, no.

cant help you with ie6 and 7, im on a mac, and it takes a considerable effort for me to get over to ie, dont have paralells yet

the problem is probably more cleaning up the db after it's implemented, right Zoffix ?

Ace_NoOne, nah
regexens
@http://www.zerosum.org/~nap/test-short.html

ya, boo to neg margins, clogs ur css pores

well thanks anyway. also on a mac here.

how so

eh?

(www.zerosum.o…) HTML: Failed (1 error, see http://tinyurl.com/2z2b9s ) | CSS: Valid [12 warnings] ( http://tinyurl.com/ytdfok ) | DOCTYPE: XHTML 1.0 Trans + url | (MIME: text/html)

http://zentatsu.com/bsg/

kk, will check

do you have os 10.4

yep

intel core duo?
got a new bug now
ur stripes are all the way to the left now

wha?
what browser?
reload one more time

ff 2 os x

that's really really odd
Can you take a screen capture

zapnap, so is the "footer" bit supposed to be red? Are you using red anywhere there at all?

Because it's not doing anything like that for me

sorry im watching an episode of 24, but had web dev toolbar and my ff just threw up
hang on

bah, ie is still nudging it

the #main area is just set to red so i could see what element was causing the gap
the issue is the gap
only when viewed in IE6/7
note that the test-long.html file doesn't show the gap because the main content area's 'height' is greater than the sidebar (Actual height not the equal column visible height). otoh, the test-short.html variant the gap is visible but only in IE6 and 7

capture in 10 sec.

the 'footer' is really just a faux footer i put in there to see where the #main area ended

http://www.qream.com/bsg.tiff

zapnap, don't really understand what you mean. Try {zoom:1;} or {overflow: hidden;} on wherever that gap is.
]z hl @ zapnap

IE hasLayout: http://haslayout.net/haslayout.shtml

]z ie extraheight @ zapnap

IE Extra Height Bug: http://haslayout.net/css/extraheight.shtml

what?
That doesn't even make sense, keaneangle

if i use overflow: hidden it'll "hide" the borders that i have set to a negative left value

its ok now
weird…

if you're looking at it in IE6/7 you'll see a 3px (or so) gap between teh border of the main content area and the inner div

Yeah, I had to replace the bg image

(inner left)

Absolutely sure it's good now, keaneangle?

ya
did u change anything?

zapnap, I see gaps everywhere (title for example) IE got this red thing. Make a screen shot or something of what it is supposed to be

if you look at test-long.html that looks the way it's supposed to
or if you view any of the above in safari

No, you just loaded at the wrong time, keaneangle

gotcha

the blue background area with the border underneath should extend all the way to the left border of the main content box to form a sort of 'title box' (#page-title)
in test-short.html it doesn't. there's a 3px gap (or so) visible only in MSIE 6 AND 7

zapnap, with "Page title"?

yes

zapnap, #page-title{margin-left: -3px;}

are you using any program like…front page to make it?

i've tried that, but will try it again.
no way

kk

zapnap, the problem steams from the fact that you have WAY too many divs. I don't understand why you couldn't just use the `border` property

it's because i'm trying to do the css drop shadow thing
(sans images)

why

setting padding-left on #page-title doesn't make any difference

zapnap, I've said margin

oop my bad one sec
ok that does seem to be doing it Zoffix. but why do i have the gap in the first place?
(guess i must have tried padding instead, totally my goof)

zapnap, too many divs
zapnap, and I still don't understand why you have so many divs there. What you got there I can do with 3 divs… not 19

soo…. n+1 divs and IE blows up? :p

zapnap, pretty much

yup

+floats

no idea how you'd do this in 3 divs

zapnap, heh, ok.. 4 divs ~

but, i'm admittedly not the css pro you are
well

zapnap, wanna see? (I won't do the footer)

well, simplicity is beauty when it comes to web design and css

also, keep in mind, this is code i've pulled out of a more complex layout to illustrate the issue
a layout with a main nav area, a more complex footer, a top header bar with some stuff in it, etc

so if its only gonna get more complex, dont make it worse, ha

so a lot of what you see are relics from that
i've just omitted some of the nested pieces. the structure is there for a reason.

i still dont understand why you dont use images
images dont have to be big bulky things

it may not be the cleanest ever but doing equal height columns plus div shadows plus liquid center can't be done in 4 divs :/
sure, point taken.

99% of my images i use are 1px thin and i just repeat them as background images

sure… me too. but when i don't have to use images i don't use images.
i didn't just start playing with frontpage this morning :p
but i'm no frontend engineer css guru either.

zapnap, one sec

sure man. i appreciate the tips.

ya, i didnt think you did haha, but i still dont understand why u dont use images

i'm still not sold that a -6 px margin is the solution though. cuz the thing is, if you look at the long version, it's the same layout.. just more text in the main content area. and that doesn't exhibit the problem. so when i apply the negative margin to that, it's giong to be off
load the short then the long and then back-button between the two… you'll note that the content area itself shifts

is there a good place to learn about columns?

down with those divs man

Any ideas about this one? http://pastebin.com/d75ff7743 I need an object with padding, but for some reason it changes the margin on the other side of the page (try the onclicks)

alistapart.com, but what about them do you want to learn?

i think the root of my issue is the way i'm doing equal height columns. because the main column behavior varies with the height of the sidebar relative to the main content area

i want to list data in them from a table
i think i want two columns and i want them to be even

just google css column tutorial
theres a bunch

and btw, it's off by 6px not 3. 6 being the number i'm shifting the table for the dropshadow effect.

so maybe it would be items A-F and G-Z but it would all depend on the amount of data between those letters
i might have to code
thanks

working thing
?
like a live site…pasting is only kinda necessary for scripting
server side i mean

any easy places to post?
the problem is only in IE, I forgot to mention that

cant help you there
im on a mac, no parallels either
zoffix might

Well how about this? http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d75ff7743

cpastebin is evil

ya it is
pastie.caboo.se/

why is pastebin evil?

]paste

http://paste.css-standards.org , http://www.webdevout.net/test , http://erxz.com/pb/ , http://sial.org/pbot/ , http://tnx.nl/scribble.plp , Upload images: http://oxihosting.com/pupload/

because you cant view the resault of your html

plus the clutter….oohhhh the clutter!

zapnap, I am almost done

i appreciate it. thanks.
no rush

zapnap, http://www.zoffix.com/new/main-side-and-drop-shadows.html

http://pastie.caboo.se/85378

very clean, nice.
and many thanks

Any ideas for fixing this in IE?

nope sorry, cant view it in ie, zoffix?

next time you're in the boston area i owe you a beer

tag

is there any way to produce similar results for an a tag?

bassinboy, no, it's just it's inline-level
bassinboy, what are you trying to archive?
]html wording @ bassinboy

A tag defines an ELEMENT

]css wording

selector{property: value;} The selector may also contain "pseudo-classes and "pseudo-elements".

thank you

is there an alternative to text-align: -moz-center? or will you guys help with my problem if that's my only invalidation error?

think of eveyrthing as its own div
you can control everypart of it

I have padding on my a tags and that causes the entire inline-level element to expand, and overlap any nearby elements. I was wondering how I would use css to separate them. (besides using display:block)

ya, stay away from mozilla specific tags
get it right for ff first, then debug in ie

i'll just delete that line for now, doesn't affect my problem if it's centered or not.

rhiza, what kind of centering you need ?

bassinboy, what are those
bassinboy, what are those as? Never needed a margin on as, sound like your semantics are off.
Should be in ul

agreed with zoffix

http://www.rhizaowns.com/example/index.html - I'm trying to extend the canvas if the text is longer than the header image.
http://www.rhizaowns.com/example/index2.html
I have a 1px high image that matches the background, but it overlays the side image, etc.

how do you make columns like this where they are fairly even although the length may change based on the amount of data in the table?
http://www.techcrunch.com/company-index/

http://pastebin.com/m2d9b4cac

so you want the layout to be liquid and adjust to the text?

yes
see also http://www.rhizaowns.com/example/index3.html

go to http://www.w3schools.com/css/tryit.asp?filename=trycss_margin-bottom and paste the html

and how the repeating image overlays the top image

man, I'm really starting to enjoy this Purisa font for coding ~

and then blelow the bottom of index3 u would like another web hosting for online images that completes the page?

right

like on index1?

http://www.zoffix.com/new/del/ss65.png http://www.zoffix.com/new/del/ss66.png hehe

what program is that Zoffix?

off tangent, that's a pretty exciting programming font.

HA!
thats nuts

any way i can supress # marks when copy/pasting from an ordered list?

bassinboy, KDevelop, but I have that font in Quanta too ~
bnjmn, no

Oh ok, I haven't used kdev in about 4 years
I use visual studio for work now, hehe

your widths could be percents

no wai

bnjmn, /msg me if you find a way.

that's not going to affect anything though, I don't think

but is your problem on index3? why isn #footer showing up?

heh ok Zoffix

well, I need to keep the a tags inline-level… but I need to be able to specify some kind of margin

i think i temporarily positioned it relatively so it'd show up how i wanted it to in index1

bassinboy, your code is invalid. Put in HTML 4.01 Strict doctype. Then use a list for your links, float the lis and set whatever margin you want on them.

er, I guess I didn't

bassinboy

that's just another problem if #layover has a background image

there are more simple ways to achieve what you want

please advise

well is this going to be all of what youre doing in the layout? is there going to be a menu? a side bar? what else? that all goes into the css

just a sec.

rhiza, do you use photoshop?

keaneangle, why should it matter ?

it a lifesaver for planning the overall design of websites

i do
http://www.rhizaowns.com/common/header.php?body=some%20text&font=17
this is really old, pardon the ugly code
i'm trying to start over with basically the same layout

]webfonts
]webfont
damn

I was just playing around with php and image rendering

mm
mhm

+ two notes :
use strict doctype
use utf-8

haha ok, the only reason I pasted that is to show keaneangle how I'm wanting the layout to look.

mkey
but that aint changing the advice

ok, so you want to slice tat bottom part right?

yes

i guess the bottom div could have a negative top margin of like…30px or something, that will cause the top to bump down.
as for the rest

http://http://innonesen.se/test/l-15/
in tyhis case #foot is yout bottom div
or
you can just set a background
an position it at the bottom

slice it like a header/subheader/countainer/right menu/footer
yup

JDiggity ?

DEF a background

can you elaborate guys? how is that going to extend the slice?

i would suggest a bit different layout

i like my layout haha

how would you slice it?

for slicing
hmm .. i change my mind , keaneangle

woo

only change i would have , is
there is no need for header and subheader
… no

…
hang on

.. thinking .. writing .. thinkging for a moment more
layoutlogin/sidecontentfoot//layout
that would be my layout
header hoes as background of div#layout
*goes
everythin else imo is quite evident

hi

mawanna,, sup

am trying to produce some nice readable text with css, with a san-serif font that is cross browser compatible
choosing the default fonts look rubbish

sans-serif looks different in each OS

I have no idea how to implement what you're talking about

anything you can recommend
ill drop the san-serif idea

do I need to slice the images differently?

jus some nice readable text apart from Arial, times new roman

im writing a css thing

arial looks like shit

hang on

the text looks too dull

times gets ugly on NIX's
i usually stay with sans-serif or verdana

apart from the crappy looking text, in IE6 i havea small 1px or 2px gap below my image, driving me mad i cant figure it out
verdana ive used alot lately
guess ill stick with it n play with the width

there aint a 'best font'

most appropriate
i produced a example for my site in photoshop
using Palatino Linotype
looks very nice

heh
sure

but i cant use the images for paragraphs its jus not right

you can manipulate leetter spacing

small gap below my header image and links, common ie prob?

maybe it helps … a bit

got 2px letter spacing and 3px word spacing

aint a bit too wide ?

back to 1px letter spacing

sure it should be an img and not a background-iamge ?
image*

its the header image

's'a yes or no question

i hopeso yes

any ajax guru around ?

there is no change on my font weight from 300 to 500 :s

not in IE6

wrong channel :p
]imgap @ MaWanna

imgap: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Images%2C_Tables%2C_and_Mysterious_Gaps

reisio, thats the problem , my problem is mix of xsl/xhr/js/html
and i can get an answer anywhere

don't see CSS in there :p

ta

sure you can

i think my last hope is #xml

if it's a js problem, go to ##javascript

didnt got any answer there
at least , not a usefull

http://pastie.caboo.se/85402

so I should split the image into smaller sections?

oh yes.
much smaller
large images = the devil

eh?

ok
thanks - this code you wrote won't let me put text over the swirly thing on the left though, will it?
since the main text is going to be in a separate div.

gap below my image :s

image is 109px tall my DIV is height is set to 109px

2px space below my header image

url ?

i really need my bravenet hosting sorted
am back to scratch on a new page
hoping this would work better this time round
gonna have to give in on this css for 2nite
fresher tomorrow
cya people

Could someone tell me why the Div called "endlink" looks right in FF but not IE7?: http://localhost/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

$

Failed to reach http://localhost/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

$

=/
i am such a fool lol

yes

http://bessey.no-ip.biz/Templates/Practice%20template.dwt.php

$

text/html, text/html; charset=utf-8)

but not the first

haha
IE7 seems to ignore the zindex and just plonk the div at the end of the line one "Link"s
of*

using both position: absolute; and float: left; is usually a bad sign
luckily the entirety of your menu code should be scrapped :p
]listamatic @ RubberDucky132

listamatic: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

it doesn't make a difference with or without
*sniff*
I'll have a looksie
is everything else ok though?
not that there is much else

heh
should be fine, yeah

Hi, I tried setting display:inline on an ul
but this didnt seem to get in herited by the list items
am I supposed to only set it on the list items?

basically

I changed to my favourite on that page, theres a small problem though between IE7 / FF2, have a look for yourself

no, describe it :p

k
basically in FF theres a gap between the heading and the list
in IE7 there isnt

what element is 'the heading'?

padding / margin set to 0px everywhere i can think of
a box with a 200×200px image hosting with a height of 200
(px)

you've only done padding/margin-_left_ for the ul

lol fixed
It's so obvious I've got "the skills" :/

is rhiza still around?

wouldn't matter if all browsers followed the fucking specs
you still around?

wait, why wouldnt it matter if all browsers followed standards?

if they all followed the standard, they'd apply the same margin and padding to ul by default
and RubberDucky132 would've seen the same thing in both browsers

i came in late to the convo and im too lazy to read it, so nvm, hah

its so annoying I know reisio

well ya…
why would it be easy? its microsoft!
heh

i mean there aren't many other platforms where you have to go "ok thats great, but have you tested it on five different things?"
its not really
no browser follows the guidelines to the book
except maybe opera 9?

no, but theyre pretty friggin close
NOTHING compared to IE

no Opera is pretty nefarious

haha
makes you wonder what the point in standards is
apart from ActiveX I didn't think IE was that bad?

well they are "guidelines"
oh its horrible

Hum. Anyone know how to do those "bookmark me" links?

javascript?

I was hoping for a more specific answer

ha
google bookmark javascript host tutorial

can't do that cross-browser

What browsers will it work in? Only IE?

even your average stupid vagina knows how to bookmark
they'll bookmark your page if they want to

oooh it's starting to come together reisio (please have a look)

http://www.hypergurl.com/bookmark.html

yeah nice

agree completely with reiso
reisio

instead of div class="header", you could just use an 'h1' element
maybe with some hidden _text_
]ir @ RubberDucky132

ir: www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/

now that should be a standard
heheh

whats the text for? if the image wont load?

the image has text in it
the text is so the text exists :p

ah so is that CSS's equivalent of "alternative" ?

image replacement?
sort of
look at your page with css disabled

Page Style (in Firefox)

it's just a list of nav links
now if you had text in an h1
it'd have a title/heading
and a list of nav links
as it should

have you read that alistapart article about symantic html?

you can do stuff like style="background-image: url(replacedtext.jpg)" on an h1 and then do h1 { background-repeat: no-repeat; text-indent: -9999px; height:… etc

I've skimmed it
ALA is a joke

hey ala used to be cool

why do you say that?

because it is :p

some of the previous articles were good… hard to place where they hit the wall

yeah a couple are useful
the vast majority are textual masturbation

maybe when they started talking about how to deal with clients and such
and start to realize these guys are just fussy nerds
have stuff like 5 articles about flash without mentioning stuff like ufo

i think its one of the best publications on the internet for design professionals

well, the _design_ of alistapart itself is dope
like the little borders on the menus are sweet
the layout of the "editor's choice" and whatnot… the writing itself it seems like the authors don't do much real work

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/grokwebstandards

what did i do to deserve a link to a wall of text?

sorry?

heh I'm joking

its a good article…made me change my whole perspective on webdesign

*groan* I'm sure it's great, it's just its past midnight here in the UK and my eyes are beggining to bleed

What article?

the grokwebstandards
I find stuff like cssplay more interesting

neat

well…i find a little extensive reading now and again really really useful
for simple design stuff i google specific articles that are incredibly concise.

that komodo site has a bunch of good stuff

Is the CSS Spec at w3.org anything more than just reference material?

then i hit up like stylegala and webcreme for inspiration

well, like 4 good things
it's an illusion

i find a program like apatana is awaesome for learning css
not good design skills…just the raw language

I'll look into that.

it has code assist/complete
so you can view all the css selectors or whatever

Nice that it comes in OS X flavor.

Well, I must say, if CSS were a woman, I'd attempt to date her and get badly rejected!
By this I mean, I love CSS :3

lol, I just wish IE would crumble and die

Don't suppose it supports PHP…

probably

what's wrong with ie

the way it renders pages

anyone here use the fonts.css from YUI?
i wonder how to properly set font sizes on nested elements

A website looks like X in Opera, Firefox, Camino, Safari, mostly all browsers

are you serious?

you go to IE and it looks nothing like X
looks more like Y

when parent element has font-size 127% .. how do i set the font-size to, say, 82% (but 82% of the initial, not of the parent)

IE == fail

yep

use a condcom if lte ie 6 link href="y.css"

..on the child

someone shouldn't have to do that

hey all… I'm having trouble getting my links at a set width/height… I'm using CSS to declare the width & height, as I'm doing a background hover effect.

it's ridiculous

how can i remove the border on a select menu in internet explorer

the hover is working, but the width/height/ and text-align are not working…

it's more ridiculous to suppose an old piece of software will magically upgrade

any ideas? http://erxz.com/pb/paste

i added a 1px white border and it just adds it around it

0;
wait
why do you want to remove the border?

that is the most brilliant thing i've ever read (looks like Y not X)

Okay, but we're not hoping IE will upgrade. Of course, our hope that it dies isn't really realistic…

I can just image someone saying it

that doesnt do it

"…dear…dear God!! That looks nothing like X… it's more… more like Y!!" *covers eyes*

because I want to have another border..

According to Net Applications, IE usage *increased* by 1 percentage point in the last two months

haha

Not that I'd trust its measurements to 1 percentage point accuracy, especially with IE which is so popularly mimicked by spam bots and such..

what can I say, I must be either a big idiot or a remarkably genial person

"at least it doesn't look like Z" … "we said we'd never speak of Z again"

everyone who knows anything already uses something besides ie

haha

the people who don't know anything about web browsers percentage will never change
I mean, some people still lease phones…

Even Chris Wilson, the lead IE developer since IE 4, doesn't use IE for casual browsing
He uses Safari

it doesnt want to go away

people still use dial up

My dad still uses dial-up

lol
dial up gives me the creeps

If Steve is right in his keynote speech at WWDC, less than 25% of people who use the internet know anything.

but I still remember when I upgraded from 28.8k to 56k
it seemed wonderful

My dad was like, "I'm paying for 56k, so why does it still say I'm downloading at 7k?"

Because you can't do math.

That's the real reason they measure it in kilobits per second

It's really only about 5 kilobytes.

yeah they've always done that

old modems had fairly good compression (v42bis, mnp5), so 6kb/s was possible on good lines

don't forget the overhead of a pcm encoded packet and whatnot, really 33.6 is the max, 56k is just compressed… or do I remember that class wrong

Ãny help guys?

tag for it

found it!

hi all

Hello, I am trying to format my site's email notifications to have the best success rate against spam blockers. Is there a page with guidelines for this, like the correct headers and such?

anyone know of a good site with open designs where I can get ideas on doing good content for sites or layouts?
maybe specifically tables?

can someone take a look at my post, i'm trying to fix a div thats holding content http://pastebin.ca/663413

how do most websites prevent users from clicking the "back" button after logging out?

Oh no! tag is getting deprecated.

well, shouldn't it be?

and more tags!

you're looking at xhtml2 aren't you?

is replaced with everything. Everything can contain that "href="URL"" thing.

Well, almost.

to be deprecated though.

anyone know where i go to ask about java applets… according to one of the immature admins there, the java room is not where you ask about java applets.

uh, littel question, why does it make a new line for every part?(meaning STR:, -, + and - are all in own lines x_x
http://erxz.com/pb/4099

should   not be used for layout?

was that a own question or an answer xD

instead

it was a question? is it okay to use   for layout or should i use css position stuff?
er it was a question.

ah thanks xD

you want to use css, to keep your presentation seperate from your markup
and in the case of  , separate from your content

okay thank you

is there something like brake mark?
to tell browser where can it brake a word in half if there are not enought white spaces
but which normally is invisible
damn
how to read N-th character of an UTF string?

:schools
anyone know the command to show the recommended websites for learning?

There are few links in the topic to begin with.

Polarina ah sorry didnt see that, thanks

Maybe not the best, but they are a good start though.

i guess i think i see what your talking about, though nothing that seems specifically what i was meaning, but thats okay im fine with the resources i have
I have an image and then a form input under it, i put margin for p to 0, and this works in firefox, but in IE there is still a big gap between the two items, how can i fix this? http://www.uniquelynorth.com/Uniquely_North_Web_Template.html

hello all

cannons are better

you could at least spell canon properly

ahha
i saw that and didn't want to bring attention to it
i don't really think one is better than the other - i heard it's similar to the vi/emacs debate

what positioning method do i want to use to center my form under my image at http://www.uniquelynorth.com/Uniquely_North_Web_Template.html please

GZ-R|Perez
http://next.roiperez.com/test/History/
image wont center
any ideas??

hello ladies and gentlemen. i just took a big shit

element

tag in XHTML 2.0?

I am trying to have a block of text in my header that gives phone/fax number, email web hosting address, and current store hours, im not sure what the best/proper way is to do it, as h4's or a p or a ul? also i am not sure how to center these
elements among themselves, not on the page, but so that the text is centered to the other text and looks nice and tidy

html xml
hey
do you know a good tutorial for html, javascript and xml interaction (no asyncron)? i want to build a virtual walk with pictures
or is this channel html only?

a virtual walk…hrmmm
how many pictures?

it is a virtual walk through my school, perhaps 100 pictures. each picture is connected to a few others

;google night of the image map alistapart @ arcil

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/imagemap/

just put 'a' elements (links) over the images
or wherever you want, really
and link to pages with other images

hi, how can i set a money format?, i am using this but it doesn't seems to work: setlocale(LC_MONETARY, 'en_US');
echo money_format('%i', $lowPrice);
i know this is a html channel but ppl in php it's kind of lost

Hi, I have a table with some text in each cell, is it possible to make each cell a clickable "thing" so it runs a script?
where the "thing" runs a script.
or rather clicking the thing invokes a script

you can make clickable the text with a onClick(function())/a

um, thats javascript host right?

yes

how do i specify what cgi script to run when it gets clicked?
each cell has to submit different values

not sure about cgi

okay.

hi
is it possible to expand a text box depanding on it's content?

Gargantua, i just took a big shit

O RLY?

and it smelled real nice

Good.
anyone?

if i am using div/div/div for layout, going 100% fluid route, is there any particular way to have column based display without using absolute co-ords on the inside divs?
or must i use tables

2 in 2 hours? impressive

i am a world class shit taker

noone cares who you ignore

I am using greybox (http://orangoo.com/labs/GreyBox/) and trying to use the opener class to set the value of a form element on the main page but opener does not exist… how do I define the name of the main page?

hello… I have a css question. I have a site that has a few div elements and tables wrapped in them (I have left/centre/right content). In the main content area section, I want to make it so that if the screen gets resized, then it has a scoll bar at the bottom. At the moment if you resize,
the content overwrites the content to the right (firefox) and with IE, the right content is pushed down the bottom.
so yeah I was just wondering, what's the way to make it have the scroll bar down the botto when the browser is resized so it doesn't affect content on the right?

how is your div sizing defined?

overflow:auto?

ummmm… well not exactly sure (this is someone elses site that I'm trying to fix). I can't see any absolute stuff in there if that's what you mean. In the main content section, there is just float: left for the left side and float: right for the right side
hidden' sections, but they are relating to banners and ads content of the site

the overflow auto should add the scrollbar when the content is bigger than the container

ahhh right
ok I wil try that. Thanks for the help
perfect! Thanks a lot

argh
my right column collapsed to underneath and i didnt even do nothing
argh only cuz i added a 2 pixel padding to the center?
so how do i pad then? its width 20/60/20
in percentage
even if i did a percentage pad it makes the other column collapse :/
another div lol… stupid fucking shit

thingy, what am I looking for? is possible?

is IT* possible.

have a body 100% height, and a center div column of 100% height, any clue how i can add padding to left/right without hurting the other left/right columns?
i put in another div in the center, but this kills the 100% height from working
hrmph, maybe that aint my problem, somethign borke

hi
how to make a text appear for 5 seconds only ?

(answered in #web)

hey guys, how can i make an input field of type select ( drop down), be longer than just a single line

that's um…
I want to say size attribute, but let me check

just found it select multiple …

yeah size attribute

i just used multiple to display them all, but thanks

i have a textarea with cols adn rows set, but it still isnt showing it those sizes. Its in a table if that matters

hi does anyone make a living designing website here?

Airer-girl: sorta - why?

reisio, I want to get into it
and I don't know my competitors

you don't want to :p they're all arrogant mediocrities :p

lol
I want to see what kind of sites my competitor are developing

oh
there are web design showcase sites
cssbeauty
there's one with … styleunlimited ? hrmmm
just do a search for 'best websites'

alright will do brb

Aloha is there a way to prevent framebreaking in FF?

JS

hi guys

hi alexIdoia

any chances to have flqsh to work ok with HTML 4 strict ?

http://reisio.com/examples/flash/

thanks reisio I knew it was
I just don't use flash that much

keep up the good work :p

be strict to be cool

well I meant keep up the good work by not using Flash that much :p
but that's good, too :p

Hey, what attribute would allow me to have a border only seperating rows?

to show up right

sepArating*
rows?

Like in this trtdblah/td/trline heretrtdblah/td/trline here

want it to work in IE?

that would be ideal
i would like it to just ie is finework in everything, but
i would like it to work in everything, but just ie is fine*

whats a good html editor that will properly align tags using tabs or spaces?
i need each nested tab to be indented properly so they align

what OS?
table { border-collapse: collapse; } td { border-bottom: 1px solid black; }

?

windows

that will add a border after every /tr?
and that goes into my css right
reisio^^

how many pixels is a favicon?

yes
16×16
;google wikipedia favicon @ Sonjaaa

thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon

do i create a bmp or gif or png or jpg and then convert somehow?

crimson editor, notepad++, e, aptana, jedit
you could, yes

is there one of those formats that converts easier to favicon?

PNG, probably

oki

decent bitmap editors can save directly to ICO
(however) :p

like MS Paint?

no :p

heheheh
i remember when it was called paintbrush
i wonder why they changed the name

to make people think it was updated

haha

shouldn't cellspacing="" adjust the amount of space between tds

yes, but not if you've set border-collapse: collapse;

Oh, anyway I can adjust that spacing then?
and keep the border collapse

isn't padding enough?

cellpadding="50"
shouldn't that change something

yes

it doesn't change anything

link

how do i make a radio button selected? i'm checking form data to see if its value is that of this radio button, if it is, i'm writing selected="selected" inside the input tag but its not getting selected ( and its going into the html )

Its not uploaded anywhere, hold on one sec and I will ftp it up

checked="checked"

oh
k

www.gtgraphics.us/products.html
see any problem as to why the padding isn't working?

$

text/html, text/html; charset=UTF-8)

SHould that be telling me something?

shouldn't be using a table for that

It seemed like the most simple way to do it
is there a more simple way?

simple != correct

But it rendered
it seemed to work, and I didn't understand the css methods

well you could just use a ul and float the li's

how do I make some stuff in my TD align on the right, and some on the left?
like
|somestuff otherstuff|

here which absolutely refuses to be centered, is there anything i can do about it?

div style="float: middle; width: 826px;"
what is wrong with that

div style="float: right;"somestuff/divdiv style="float: right;"otherstuff/divdiv style="clear: both;" /

brilliant, thanks!
didn't know about clear:both

;google whatthefont

http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/

;google identifont

http://www.identifont.com/

ok I have a stupid problem to do with IE I think. I have a site that has three sections, left middle and right. If I resize the browser in IE then the left column drops underneath the middle content if it's getting too squashed, but firefox is fine and does not drop down. Why is
that?

because ie sucks

it's bloody annoying… everytime I go to edit something in html/css, ALWAYS without fail, IE will look like a dogs breakfast while firefox is fine

thats probably because your changing things whilst looking at a copy in firefox to make sure its ok

absolute. Is that generally a bad idea?

if you did it the other way round you'd have the problem in reverse

yeah you are probably right. But the thing is, I can't get it to look good in IE at all

]collapsingmargins

http://complexspiral.com/publications/uncollapsing-margins/ | http://w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/box.html#collapsing-margins

Hi, maybe it's a stupid question.. I have a container div with height: 20px, width: 20px; it contains another div with position: absolute.
now when the child-div has width/height set in percents, it's the percents *of the document* and not of the parent. (In position: relative it's just fine)
fixed" should do.. not absolute.. Any way to still use absolute (I want to manually set .top and .left) but be able to set the width/height by parent's percentage?
btw in IE6 I *could* use percents with "absolute", but firefox and ie7 don't let me , so I guess they're more correct…

link?

in 30 seconds
http://www.held.org.il/temp/test.html
98%, width 90% .. but it's the percentage of the document and not of the parent..

position: relative; on the parent

Default is relative. I want it to be relative. is it a mistake?
relative; child: absolute
ohhh
I had some misunderstanding. position: relative is not the default, and it's indeed what I was looking for.
bI had some misunderstanding. position: relative is not the default, and it's indeed what I was looking for./b
10x man
I should read a little more about positioning.. I now absolute and fixed look the same.

can I have an if statement embedded into the "onblur" of an event ?

lol

I never actually looked at yours
i'm just pushing the 6000+

Joker_-_: I'm not saying you're doing something wrong - I just think it's overly cautious. I don't concede that the PSU is the most important part of the system, or a critical failure point. It's cheap, easy to replace, and a switching supply is unlikely to take anything out on a motherboard if
it fails. At worst, you lose the work from that session.

especially with people going for the FX-52

You wanna know what the best thing you can do for your power supple??

if I am going to go higher.. i'll get the FX-62 or FX-74

a 5600+ will draw over 120W at load, whereas an E6550 will draw closer to 50
70W is a big difference.

have it on a UPS

sorry

Joker_-_: Yeah. Your last comment was just patronizing. Let's call this conversation off.

FX-62
the 6000+ is better than the FX-62

an FX-62 and a 5600+ have the same stock speed

Hello, I booted up my gentoo system today to find that none of my modules are loading, even when I try to load them manually. Config files seem intact. Anybody seen anything like this? I have no idea what I did.

power supplies like being on a UPS

DemonThing, 70w is a big diff, but i just don't care for Intel
never have really

well I had 3 AMD systems before my current Intel one

haha a fellow AMD fanboy
the only intel system i'll ever own is when I get my macbook pro

I don't really care either way, I just get whichever is better at the time
uI don't really care either way, I just get whichever is better at the time/u

want to see something funny
http://www.becomingx.com/gallery/etcetera/DSC00048
AMD/Intel Chip - 1978

lol

8086, gotta love those

8086

hehe
stock cooling with arctic silver be fine for the 5600+ ?

probably

yes

thanks

the X2 stock coolers are quite nice

ceramique is much better

Why not water cooling?

well, compared to other stock ones

if not overclocking, why go h2o?

Even a super air PSU is noisy

Decent watercooling costs money

oh silent computing

i don't mind the noise, its not too bad

likewhoa, ceramique and AS5 perform the same

Water cooling is silent, no issue with sound

ok guys.. i need to get to sleep.. going camping tomorrow

wrong. ceramique performs better under subzero temps

thanks for the help.. will order parts Sunday

yeah but you're not goign to get those on air

correct

thanks DemonThing
and everyone else

hehe

Your making a modern day Entertainment box and then have 384774 fans blowing your music/sound experince to hell seems a bad way to go

but overall ceramique is better.

Hey- that low-level format thing seems to have worked
it's booting up now

ceramique is a bit more sticky and stuff.

lol@ Miravlix

nice jfred
you had a corrupt MBR
needed to write it to 0's

i guess so

gnite guys/gals!

i did a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda

is there a way to force a mount to recover data?

ever try collarobatory liquid proc "liquid silver"?

yea that works jfred

maybe you guys can help
my computer has been blue screening from vista

could have just done 1 block though (the MBR)

no. I hear it performs well but it's uh

then all the sudden it just doesn't boot from grub anymore

gnite all

messy

might my mbr be messed up

gnite Lo, thanks for the help

np

edit it in fstab. man fstab for more info.

thx

though if I felt like it I'd get that Shin-Etsu X23-something stuff

I think silent running was part of the choice when I made my current computers, but no PSU + Fans is ever going to be silent

can't find that locally though
I want to do water.

So Water cooling seems to be the only game in town

yea it's risky business, that stuff is like the terminator on your computer. it's slick

heh

suddenly i have no /dev/sda1, just /dev/sda. what can be the problem? thanks

nocti, unpartitioned disk

it's a flash drive that i can access in win32

TEC cooling is good if you live in cold temperatures.. my TEC 320W heated up my room from 70F to 98F in 5mins, lol

oh.
well maybe udev is being foolish

can i recreate /dev/sda1? how

by making a partition on /dev/sda

actually
well, there was an sda1 before?

It's automatic

Hi people! I need some small help chnging from ubuntu to gentoo.

yes, i have it mounted via fstab to /mnt/usb
automatic how?

whats up with eclean distfiles/packages

boot from livecd and hose that ubuntu partition

My windows install has been blue screening and now it won't even boot from grub, like i choose it in grub and i see the command it's supposed to run to boot it and that's all. What's up with it, do you think??
sorry about the ??

When the kernel reads the drive it reads partitions and make the appropiate sda# devs
With the help of udev

how do i use ufed to do - use flags?

when I boot from the minimal installer, during the boot /mtab hangs up with trying to initialize "/dev/hda"

so something happened during boot and /dev/sda? didnt get created?

Yes
Missing module? forgot to load it?

on ubuntu /dev/hda is not available, cdrom is /dev/scd0, and all hard disks /dev/sdX

It was USB, maybe it doesn't have power?

do you know how I can solve the problem?
I did many times gentoo installations before.

hmm. i'll look into the logs, usb is lighted. it's the /dev/sda1 device pointer that's missing

MrSmile, SATA disks?

yes

SATA disks will be /dev/sd*
rather than hd*

maybe it's not grub but just a bad case of windows rot.

just use the Ubuntu CD, gentoo doesn't care what you use

can you access your win partitions via nix?

I know, but gentoo is tryinging to modprobe /dev/hda and hangs up.

nocti, that would be a useful thing to try wouldn't it… one moment

r there any mail server scripts for gentoo

you can do a gentoo installation from a ubuntu livecd

imo, it doesnt hangs with hda… it hangs on the next probe, hda has alreayd been probed when it hangs

aha

damnit, it didn't work
:/

any ideas how to solve this case?

might be a chipset / kernel compatibility problem…
as other said, u can always try to install gentoo trough an other linux distro. Gentoo doesnt care what you boot with to install

from the latest gentoo AMD64 minimal cd?

30+ mins to run a eclean distfiles
Seems a bit extream to me

i did it ones, I was having problems later with chroot

im having problems making X work, it claims it found no screens, but ive defined everything in xorg.conf

to chrooting the new environment.

what about trying to boot with your working kernel
?

Kitchen Sink kernels does unfortunately get it wrong

that is really strange, as I know gentoo cares always to have the most recent kernels.

it's not how "recent" it is… it's how it's been compiled
maybe it doesnt have your drivers compilled in it

aha
are there any instruction how to make my own minimal installer on the net?

I'd google for anyone else having the same problem, giving you motherboard and the kernel (gentoo installation)
*your

I'd love to contribute!

Yeah there is howtos for it

if you give me the docs, or a guide I will make one for CORE2DUO CPU's
uif you give me the docs, or a guide I will make one for CORE2DUO CPU's/u

it's not the CPU (imo)
might be the motherboard tho

then we have IA64, INTEL64 BIT, and AMD64 bit optimized minimal installer and stages.

Could be MSI, there is a suppringly number of motherboards that get MSI horrible wrong

hi all

ok ill ask again
how do i disable useflags with ufed
i can only enable them

You don't

what can i use to disable them?

Do you know where are the docs?
I mean the know-how, to explain how to "contribute" ?!

your favorit editor with make.conf

well i know that
but am i supposed to magicly know all the use flags?

I haven't had a reason to remember weird urls since the invention of search engines
What you don't know doesn't matter, if your using ufed to learn flags your messing with things you shouldn't

http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/use-index.xml

use flags gentoo. first hit

The USe flag system is very complicated and does not deal well with blindly being used.

Joker_-_: They're in the profile, too.

wells theres a bunch of stuff that i know i dont need like ipv6 and seamonkey
i wouldnt disable random shit that i dont know what it does

Only when you know with 120% certainty that a flag should be enabled should you enable it

/usr/portage/profiles/use.desc

or disable it for the matter.
Seamonkey? It isn't part of the base system

not that i know of
i dont have it installed
another one i can think of is selinux

No. The base system is basically just a functional operating system (no X, even).

also i dont need grub since i use lilo
but ill have to look up if there is a grub flag

I'm having trouble installing Gentoo
*downloading, actually

no grub flags from what I know of…

emerge –info will show you current configuration

when i get back from hilton head ill look at the whole list and disable what i dont need

That a bad idea

http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/where.xml

Your going to create a system that wont work if you mess with USE flags like that

What link do I click?
And what's i686?

moaning all

ok what ever
ill keep it as is

NEVER ever do mass use flags

?

why?

TV-VCR: Whoa. Ummm - you're going to need to do a lot of reading. However, i686 is fairly standard code for processors from the Pentium Plus to present.

Because the USE flag system is very fragile, Top1 problem with installation is when someone messes with the USE flags

TV-VCR: It can generally be read as "intel compatible".

tailor them to your needs

ok ok… tought there was somthing bad bout having a use use flag….
'caus I do

Pentium Pro, too.

No, it just requires you to be cautious

*huge

nothing wrong with use flags

Slowly make changes, and use emerge –newuse world to update

I need help.

meh then i suck i have like 20 use flags

Please assist me

Sorry. TV-VCR : s/pentium plus/pentium pro

ty aja

with?

I have a Pentium 4. Will it work with Gentoo?

ok never mind i have more

yes

Hurrah!

i686

imo, if you really know what the flags do and why you actually use em, I dont see any problem with that.

Do I need to partition my Hard disk? I have 98 GB left

ya i know what they do

We keep getting people thats spend weeks on trying to get Gentoo to run on there system in here and there is next to nothing we can do most of the time, except say start over, don't mess with USE flags, except when you absolutely have no other choice.

alot are video codecs

Or is that automatic

so they dont really count

chances are that those flasg are already in your profile tho…

TV-VCR: You need to follow the guide closely. It will tell you what to do.

tv-vcr go read the manual

Where is the manual exactly?

TV-VCR: Go to the gentoo web site. Click on docs.

on gentoo.org

Thanks

look for hand book

anyone here updated lately? openssh's new update cares for ldap and smartcard… I dont get why!

hi there

use flags are kind of nifty

its a gay question but
someone here got installed gentoo and vista ?

I do

it beats having to do a ./configure –help every time

but Im not gay

Joker_-_: Hmm, openssh has smartcard support,e ven a flag I think, but if it's not enabled??

yup

Where may I find out (FAQs) about downloading… I am having trouble finding it

openssh has in as standard

joker

nah I had it enabled for testing purpose but I dont get why it cars for it…!

as with ldap

vista had problems with grub ?

Joker_-_: openssh supports using smartcards for key stuff

whats the link between openssh and smartcards!
wow… I'm missing something there

Joker_-_: Instead of a password you have a smartcard key

login keys

if i'm connected trough ssh, how can I put a smartcard in the computer?

opnessh looks for it

You need a smartcard reader I think, don't know all that much about it.

like it looks for any other sec cert

saying the smartcard is already in the remote computer?

Might be USB these days

Joker_-_: You could put one in the local computer, bearing the keys to establish a connection to the remote …

Joker_-_: The card would be in your local computer to allow you to use your private key

no your client sends a responce

same with any auth

wow, I realy wasnt aware of that…

Joker_-_: I've seen it in large corporations.

so much we can do with knowledge…

Joker_-_: SSH has Public/Private key authenthication

who uses passwords these days

You put a public key on the server host and have a private one of the workstation

call me oldschool but I do heh

Only someone with the private host key can use it to authenticate tot he public key
No other key will unlock the lock

this has been round for many many years

yeah but I didnt tought you could actually use it remotely

yup

Joker_-_: Just like you send encrypted emails with a public/private key system

doesnt mater if its lan or wan

PGP

makes sence

no use on the local to local

I've never used anything like that tho… is that a pain to setup?

nope
5 mins

damn, I should try it. Goooooogle time

5 mins?
What are you making the key on a 8088?
ssh-keygen takes seconds
scp public key remotehost:.ssh/keyfile

that depends im talking about deploying

not just creating a key set …

I beleive the smartcard becomes your password, not private key

joker

Smouse:

any problem with dual boot ? vista / gentoo

nope
I totally disliked vista and uninstalled it after a month or so, but no, no problems

depends on the card

anyone know how to recursively get google map, so that when i am travelling, i can see it without wifi?

Vista took over the mbr just like any windows
but you can always set it back with an install cd or a bootdisk
I think theres a few howto's out there bout that

install first vista … next gentoo install grub
and this work ?
like always do

Well, it doesn't look like much of a problem to download page after page of map data. Your problem is data size. I doubt you have the hard-drive capacity for a measurable fraction of the content of Google maps.

i think vista wasnt accept as microsoft supposed

I had gentoo already installed, I only made a partition for vista, installed it and did the mbr trick…

ah… i live on an island

joker right but u next re install grub on mbr and it work ?

eclean distfiles has now been running for a hour

yup, thats what I called the "mbr trick"
I'm looking for a howto wich could guide you better than me

oh .. sorry my english not good

but that's pretty straight-forward
my english is prolly as bad as yours, I usually speak french

Joker_-_ i do dual boot many times but a read some stuff about vista some problems

Howdy. Flashplayer stopped working with firefox 2.0.0.6 for anyone else?

i wanna try it to see …

if you read about vista, chances are you'll read about problems
but thats a personnal opnion

Seems fine to me

Joker_-_ u had problems with something ?

I want to configure the HISTSIZE of the bourne shell for root and other users. Is /etc/bash/bashrc the correct file for global settings?

Hmm, I'm using 9 though

wonder what's wrong then. I am as well, it's the only thing stable on amd64

I found a howto let me read it a bit… it's on ubuntu but it should work just the same with gentoo…
nope, I did it just like any other windows version, realy

ok i see

check this out
http://www.eloff.se/tutorials.php?ubuntu_vista_dualboot
if u are familliar with gentoo, you should get it.

i mean i want my opinion many persons install a beta and go running to internet to public bullshit

how do I findout which package contains a file? i.e. which package contains the perl MakeMaker? tnx a 10^6.

i always used slackware i used gentoo a time before

I was a slacker too
slack is pretty good, but portage + community = awesome.

gentoo kick asses

language

anyone here know how to make ati-drivers compile on amd64

Garibaldi its not an insult …

problem with the Gentoo comunity is that they have to sleep sometimes.

I didn't say, "don't insult", we have a "no foul language" policy here

arguing is futile, just say: gentoo rocks

if it's installed then you can use equery b file

tnx

community never sleeps. Sleeping is for the weak.

emerge portage-utils && qfile /path/to/perl/MakeMaker

Chuck Norris never sleeps, he waits.

Garibaldi, ok …

Aight, gnight

Joker_-_:

bloggsie:

Joker_-_: Not allowed! -

How is it possible to exclude a program from updating when updating the entire system. I get an ebuild error for "net-misc/openssh-4.6_p1-r2"

I'm just gonna wait, laying down in my bed.

mask it

ok

i got an idiot question … gentoo got problems recognozing the cored in a athlon x2 4000 ?

/etc/portage/package.mask`

It's described in great details in the portage part of the handbook

Sorry, that was for m0r0n

:-)

ANyone here have experience with Nvidia cards? I have a question.

hi i'm trying to get a resolution up manually - will this work??? http://pastebin.com/d652bc9f6

just ask the question, im sure someone will know something

Alright.

you'll have to try it to findout

I have an Nvidia NX7600GS, 256 MB. My question is, will I be able to run World of Warcraft smoothly on Linux? Considering I am comming fron a 9200 series ATI card that was no longer supported by FGLRX.

not having play WoW on linux, my first instinct is to say yes

i've put it in but i havent initiated it

rakeyry, ah. myself i dont play W.o.W but i have the exact same card and i can run far cry very well

Why is that?
Nice.

nvidia's drivers are way better as far as fedora linux is concerned

Danke

a lot fewer people complian of problems with nvidia as opposeded to ati

Great.
After a year of Linux. I knew installing Vista for a vid. card would be a mistake.
Silly me.
Excuse my language. I don't usually say the "v" word =D

no, vista isn't really worth it at this point

But it gets DX10!
How can we live without it?

we cant,just aswell i cant wait for crysis

Though, it seems to me that DX10 main point is to prevent others from running Vista in a VM
or emulating Windows

DX10 support is under work in Wine..

Just like DX9 thats never really worked 100%
MS is too good at this game of making things only work for them

Hey, it's still under work, not finished

Is there somewhere I could add this package creation script I made?

Will I need to partition my Hard disk?

equery l | awk '{ print $0 }' | awk '/.*\/.*/' | bash -c 'for x in $( cat ) ; do quickpkg =$x; done'
Some howto or something where it would be appropiate to add?

nocti, are you still around

what utility should i use to resize an ext3 partition? trying to add some space to /dev/hda3 from hda4

is anyone using reiser4 on root here ?

gpartd?

w/o loosing data

resize2fs

My windows install has been blue screening and now it won't even boot from grub, like i choose it in grub and i see the command it's supposed to run to boot it and that's all. What's up with it, do you think?
and i can access the windows partition on linux

thx guys ill check man pages for both of those

Sounds more like broken Windows than Gentoo problem..

i'm aware it's not a gentoo problem
i was just hoping someone could help
could it just be that the mbr got wrecked somehow?

The resize2fs program does not manipulate the size of partitions.

Windows lives in different disk?

hmm if the mbr got clobbered i doubt you'll be seeing the grub menu. what filesystem are you using on win? ntfs/fat32?

nocti, ntfs
tmr, yes
and it booted just fine before, now nothing i just see the command it is supposed to run

before that happened were the ntfs partitions mountable?

yes
and they still are

You could try bootin with Windows install CD and fiddling with repair console.

It is a multi step operation, you need fsck, resize2fs and a fdisk tool

do you have SP2?

anyone, when using the CD_ROOT_# vars with multiple CDs (doom3), how do I get the emerge to chill so I can have enough time to swap CDs?

wouldnt fdisk cause dataloss?

gparted

and how big is this hdd?

jacekowski, it's vista

and yes

jacekowski, Hmm 10GB?

just restart the emerge, nothing more. i know they get stuck sometimes and quit on you if you're not fast enough.. an emerge –resume should fix it

tmr, what would i need to fiddle with though

ok, time to backup your ntfs data somewhere via linux, before you use any tools to fix that ntfs, tip: use windows tools for windows partitions and vis-a-vis linux

That depends on whatever you do it right or wrong

I don't know about Vista..

Try reading resize2fs man page it describe it

you know what i can try… i could just change the boot priority in bios to boot straight from the windows hdd and bypass grub to see if it will boot that way

If you wish to shrink an ext2 partition, first use resize2fs to shrink the size of filesystem. Then you may use fdisk(8)

yea i read that part also, thats why part of my original question was with out data loss
uyea i read that part also, thats why part of my original question was with out data loss/u

Where is this dataloss problem?

i've got a very stupid problem with portage. i'm trying to emerge my own package i made. i created the manifest and have the package sitting in distfiles, however portage wants to try to download that file everytime i try emerging the package, even though i have the package sitting right there
in distfiles before and after i created the manifest. anyone know what's going on?

tmr, nocti, jacekowski I can boot windows by booting straight from the hdd but now through grub
not*

hello, im trying to compile my own kernel on gentoo and failing miserably… can anyone please tell me a really good howto on what exactly i need to include?

lol
i was about to answer him

mzbot gentoo howto kernel compile
gentoo howto kernel compile

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/dri-howto.xml

lawl

can you pastebin your grub menu.lst?

let me reboot again

Hi, i cant seem to get sound to work in gentoo. Ive gotten it to work before, but the newest kernel doesnt seem to work (2.6.22)
Can anyone help?

Did you enable alsa in the kernel?

Slowking_Man, Yup, do what i normally do, here is my lsmod output:
http://rafb.net/p/McPhgw88.html

google Kernel Howto

http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Kernel-HOWTO.html

what is the command to pastebin again
i know i installed something to do that from cli lol

wgetpaste, nopaste..

thanks

I can play mp3's with mp3 blaster in the console is the thing

http://rafb.net/p/ebGkGe12.html nocti

tell Miravlix help

Sorry, you are not allowed to do that.

Oh well guess I have to settle for spamming 900 people in the channel instead.

lol

So sound does work..?

Only with mp3 blaster, yes it works. In pidgin no, flash no

Niriven, do you have those set up for alsa?

No probably not, any specifics you can give me?

I want to use jahshaka so bad but I can't get it to work for ANYTHING.

Try following Gentoo Alsa guide.

not specifics really :/, check the preferences in respective programs
nocti, anything?

What desktop enviroment do you use?
Start pidgin from an xterm and go into settings and try the different options under sound and the test
It might give you an error in the xterm to give you an idea of whats wrong

do you have alsa in your USE flags in make.conf or in the profile your using?

Ehnvis, No, that might help huh?
Miravlix, Xfce, and no pidgin is set to command line beep, no alsa option there

Well, then I'm going to say the same as Ehnvis

Add alsa in USE and `emerge -uDNa world`..

Compile in ALSA support!

google gentoo vista grub?

alsa doesnt seem to be a use flag for pidgin though, ill try

nocti, it just stopped working all of the sudden :/

what? google?

Thats because it uses gstreamer

nocti, no grub booting vista

I'm not sure if my issue is the same as what you have (because I couldn't get any sound)

it worked before

gstreamer has an ALSA flag

I'm trying to use the -G and BINHOST option, but get this:- http://berty.dyndns.org/emerge.err any ideas?

but it could be an issue w/ snd-hda-intel
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=4158924#4158924

k, you said vista BSoD'd before that happened right?

oh, what about it?

yes, it was.
a few times
then it stopped booting from grub

how about booting Vista and trying to do a scandisk or something

well

i can do that

in the new driver, Niriven, you have to pass an option to the module

nocti, i'll try that out and get back to
anything else i can try from the windows end so i don't have to continuously reboot?

the option says your laptop model, or auto
'option snd-hda-intel model=auto blah blah'
that goes into /etc/modules.d/alsa

pafft, i dont even have to do that in freebsd for sound :-/
But thanks :-0

lol..

your welcome

g'night

hey nocti, i just booted windows from grub… after booting it straight that seemed to have fix it?
it's running scan disk now though…

must be some glitch or some lost clusters, im not sure, im not really a hardware guy

thanks sir
it working is good enough for me
and i fixed my gentoo install today too
good day lol

just keep in mind, if windows is broken, use windows tools, and same thing for unix

Win-XP always scans after you resize.

nocti, yeah, good general rule
bloggsie, i'm using vista

Probably the same.

bloggsie, well ok i booted straight from the hdd and it booted since it wasn't booting from grub
then i booted from grub and it booted and went straight to scan disk
so does that make sense, what you said?

http://berty.dyndns.org/emerge.err when I attempt to do a binary package emerge, any ideas?
Only to a Windows guru.

bloggsie, lol ok

Unable to get listing: None Server request failed: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding
The english in that line is broken
makes no sense

is installing apr-1.2.9 showing bad digests for anyone else?

It should be http://somewhere.com/ Server request failed

hey all, quick question. if i want to run sshd as a service in a jail for users to access, should i be starting the service within the jail? or how do i go about doing it?

So your missing configuring a bin server

i understand that i'll have to be root to run init scripts.
so how does it go from there?

when I run the request on the bin server itself it runs ok.

nm, was downloading a 404 page, downloaded and manually placed it into my distfiles dir…

What command?

How important is getting the correct date during a gentoo install?

It's not the end of the world, but date/time is fairly important

you will get errors if the date is in the future

emerge -G dev-lang/perl –pretend

and what have you set the binserver variable to?

Once I get gentoo installed (and hence ntp), can I just do find / -exec touch {} \; to fix the timestamp problems?
I suppose ctimes would still be wrong… but there is probably a way to fix that as well…

PORTAGE_BINHOST="http://iago.csnet/gentoo/packages/All" iago is my server machine running a fairly comprehensive Gentoo.

iago.csnet is a valid address in your local network?
I've never seen a csnet top domain before

yes, and berty.dyndns.org externally
c and s are my initials

host iago.csnet returns an IP?

no, not to you, but it does for me.

That was what I was making sure of
/etc/hosts configurations is ignored
With certain host lookups so I had to be sure host actually got an IP on your system

yes indeed, I have a local nameserver in the IPCop box

Doesn't help us much that it works, it's still broken.

I'm missing the codec needed to do the -G flag on the machine I'm setting up. I'm wondering what it might be? I suspect some XML thing, but have now idea what.

The man only supports ftp
No mention of http
Do you have other information, that says http is supported?

The /etc/make.conf.example file offers: #PORTAGE_BINHOST="http://grp.mirror.site/gentoo/grp/1.4/i686/athlon-xp/"

In the output of "cd-info", i see "Can hard reset device: Yes." Well. How would I possibly go about hard-resetting said device? The drive rejects all my CD-Rs, leaving me unable to burn the 2007.0 amd64 liveCD.

http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Using_PORTAGE_BINHOST

I think http supports depends on $FETCHCOMMAND.

There is mentioning of pythong throwing an exception on that page

never mind. I'll have another go after the Europeans have woken up.

hi all.. i'd like to try one of those new super-eye-candy WM's.. whats the latest one? beryl? compiz? im not sure

gentoo-wiki.com is not the authorative source for gentoo documenation

What does that matter?

Portage should support ftp and http sources for bin hosts
join #gentoo-xeffects

I thought so.

teach Miravlix wiki

Wikis can be edited by anyone, including the uninformed and malicious. http://www.gentoo-wiki.com is a great resource, but is not endorsed or supported by us so we may ask you to go read the official documentation. (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml) (deface is usually online and can be poked for help if the wiki goes down)

Someone has found binhost throwing an exception and blogsie precisely has the problem of it throwing and exception

ok

So no need to be rude

He wasn't just informative.

I wasn't trying to be rude. I'm sorry if it seemed I was
Can you paste a link to your error?

http://berty.dyndns.org/emerge.err

Most of the time wiki is better than so called supported documentation

Can you paste a link to your emerge –info?

jmbsvicetto ok. hang on a tick, I'll have to generate & post it.
Here ’tis: http://berty.dyndns.org/emerge.info

I've been trying to see if I could find referances to emerge http support requireing curl
But there isn't all that much to find on the binhost system

You have -O3 with gcc-4. -O3 is not considered safe with gcc-4

just so you know. I'm attempting to install G. on a T41 ThinkPad using the BINHOST method where the host is a dual P/III. Thus hoping to save a lot of time compiling
thanks for that

The broken way the error message is worded leads me to beleive it doesn't parse the binhost variable and get the server

and jmbsvicetto I think there is some file missing on the client which decodes the o/p from the server.

Can you show your /etc/make.conf? I can't see any PORTAGE_BINHOST in your emerge –info

I suspect the wording of the error message is because its author has English as a third language.
ok 2 ticks

It's most likely python that generates most of the text of the error

grepped out PORTAGE_BINHOST="http://iago.csnet/gentoo/packages/All"

And I doubt python would have that bad english

hi, can anyone confirm if CONFIG_USB_NET_CDC_SUBSET has been removed from gentoo-sources?

Any specific version?

That enough? or do you need the whole thing?

jmbsvicetto, 2.6.22.x and 2.6.21-r3

Try running the following: wget http://iago.csnet/gentoo/packages/All

searched for it? / opens up a search function in menuconfig

suiside, yeah the module is named as cdc_ether..

anyone here knows if i should be starting sshd within the jail env or in the actual system env?

works ok. I get an index.html

are you in the process of a gentoo install?

Can anybody tell me what's best hosting to make a partion (in fdisk) that's going to be shared between linux and windows? W95 FAT32? And what's LBA?

no, in the midst of setting up a jail.

Are you sure it sin't CONFIG_USB_USBNET_CDC_SUBSET?

doh!, lemme check

I'm wondering if i want to jail that particular service, would i be running it in the system env or starting it in the jail env?

ahh, ok .. sorry, I'm not going to be much help

Oh darn.
Anyone knows?

ksool ntfs, and use ntfs-3g to access it.

How are you trying to emerge the package?

from what I know if you want to jail something, you start it in the chroot jail

you mean the command
?

bloggsie, aren't the ntfs drivers still a little beta? Why not just use FAT?

yes

no

and in that case, i should have a superuser account for that jail, yes?

emerge -G dev-lang/perl –pretend

huh, I thought there was some trouble with write access, but that was a while ago. Anyway, are there benifits of NTFS over FAT?

jmbsvicetto, nope, CONFIG_USB_USBNET_CDC_SUBSET not there…might i know what version you looked into?

If using LILO (not grub) is there any need (any circumstances) in which a /boot/System.map is needed?

up the taste really, some people install ext2 drivers for windows and use that or ext3, ntfs-3g is also a nice alternative, but do note that ntfs-3g is not the kernel ntfs drivers, it's a userspace driver

provides the windows side with access control

not really a concern for me since it's just going to be a shared media drive anyway.

I couldn't find it on gentoo-sources-2.6.22{-r1,-r2} or 2.6.21{-r1,-r2,-r3}

NTFS copes with much bigger files and partitions. For a home user it's six of one holf-down of 'toher
s/toher/tother/

jmbsvicetto, oh, same here..then looks like i gotta emerge an older one…thanks for the headsup mate

if you're going to be storing raw video than you might find the filesize limit of FAT16/32 disturbing

I would suggest avoiding the extX drivers on windows - if windows borks, it can mess with the extX filesystems

I have a working kernel for my system, but I wish to upgrade it. Is there a way to import my old settings for the new kernel?

s/if/when/ :p
copy .config into the new src dir and make oldconfig

.config (when in /usr/src/linux)

hey
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-573921.html ?

make menuconfig is better, otherwise you will have 100s of questions

suiside, that's a good point, I'd forgotten about that.

afaik they don't even support journaling yet

Thank you very much =P

Are you sure you have the latest package version on the bin host?

hmm, I don't think so. I thought the point of a jail was to give the process(es) running in the jail as little as possible

as off a few days ago, yes.

sounds like you forgot to turn on dma on the harddrives?

on SATA?

ah never mind then

What do you get from emerge -pv -g dev-lang/perl ?

even yes, mouse shouldn't laggggg

anyone know what dslinux is based on?

The error message

it does, i've seen that before.

iirc, init scripts such as sshd have to run as root.

any idea on it?

damn small linux or linux for nintendo ds?

Timing buffered disk reads: 172 MB in 3.03 seconds = 56.73 MB/sec

You get the same error with both -G and -g ?

how about asking in #dslinux

had reiserfs, have reiser4

hi

looks like it.

would there be any down side to using ext3? Since linux is my prefered I'd rather use what's most established there and use the moded drivers on windows.

i'm using an ssh to connect to a headless server, how do i spawn a process so I can close the window without closing the program?

As A. N. Other said. If windows crashes, it can stuff you ext3 f/s

erm, 172MB in 3.03 seconds sounds slow. I've got 704MB in 2 seconds = 351.19 MB/sec on an 2.5" ide drive.

You don't have FETCHCOMMAND on your make.conf, right?

correct

the windows ext drivers don't support journaling, so yo'd practiacally have ext2 in windows
*practically

how convenient

impossible… it's SATA/150 hd
~55MB/s is normal
but when compiling, and when mouse laggs hd is not working, copu is working
s/copu/cpu/

You've tried to update python and or run revdep-rebuild?

:-) I'd use the ntfs-3g things

ah sorry now i see.. i need more coffee. will shut up for now.

anyone know?

use screen

i have typed hdparm -t /dev/sda

bloggsie, sadly, it's looking like that's the best option.

exit

eg for my SATA2 disk:

neither. That's a good idea. Tnx ever so. I have to cook tea now.

hdparm isn't benchmark
dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null count=100 bs=10M is much better

I notice that e2fsck (1.40WIP) discards orphaned inodes. Whatever happened to inodes being hardlinked in lost+found? Is there any way to recover that behaviour?

What are you trying to do with the chroot?

hi, I'm trying to configure wpa_supplicant. I followed the wireless installation instructions, however when booting, wpa_supplicant dumps an help message. could it be a configuration issue?

Are you trying to run ssh in a chroot? Or are you concerned with having access to a box where you run a few services in a chroot?

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-573921.html ?

You better post a link to the errors or wpa_supplicant messages

jmbsvicetto actually you have the same message as when you invoke wpa_supplicant in the console without arguments

trying to run sshd/ftpd and apache2 in a chroot

for users.

hmm, I would assume you would run ftpd and apache on the chroot, not sshd
But if you want to run it in a chroot, be sure to configure it to use a different port of the sshd process on the host
Have you tried using wpa_cli or wpa_gui?

ah, ok. i'm wondering how i would be starting the processes in the jail env.

do i just run it in the system env and all goes well, or do i need to log into the jail env and have it start?

i thought if u emerged firefox it would be a binary file

By your description, I get the impression that you're not talking about a service jail, but on a complete chroot

firefox-bin would be one

so i should have emerged firefox-bin?
i emerged mozilla-firefox

yes

What is your doubt?

i assumed it would simply be the binary and i could just emerge it real quick but now its taking forever
what would happen if i ctrl+c'ed it

ah, ok. What everslick said

www-client/mozilla-firefox-bin-2.0.0.6

hey

so you have to emerge mozilla-firefox-bin

what the chinese #gentoo?

yes, just ctrl-c it

kk

tech chifferchap chinese

If you are talking about a service chroot jail, that is configured on the service config files

jmbsvicetto i just tried wpa_cli. it cannot connect to eth2 (which is my wireless itf). But if i invoke manually wpa_supplicant and then retry, then i can dump the status. Maybe the problem is with the init scripts/conf files?

You'll have a separate chroot for each process. If you're talking about a complete chroot, you'll have a new system running inside your host

Baah, mzbot needs to be linked to a web site, so I better can remember it's keywords

crap i emerged it w/ -bin but now for some reason its emerging gcc………

help

module list is being /msg'd

Are you sure about your /etc/conf.d/net config file?

anyone done a ps3 instakk?

hehe cool

can you tell me the chinese #gentoo?

install

Also, in doubt, make sure with ifconfig -a and iwconfig that your wireless is really eth2
Also, in doubt, make sure with ifconfig -a and iwconfig that your wireless is really eth2

*grin*

I've been working for months on a bot that combines WebSite and IRC channel

spell moreon

moreon: Moreno, moron, Moreen, morion, Morena

:P

I am installing gentoo on my xbox. which stage should i use? it does not have much horesepower…

http://rafb.net/p/ZykESU37.html

Fully interactive community tool, but I wonder if I will ever get to finish it.

:q

?

god damn it. every time i try to do a clean shutdown the system dosent even shut down. it unloads crap then boots back up

Try halt?

im trying that 1 now

whats it coded in?

mplayer has sse sse2 and ssse3 USE flags, is there any point in including all 3, or is ssse3 enough?

mine - http://rafb.net/p/7Ic3cn70.html

Since it should fully intergrate with a web site, some ideas was to code it in PHP.

hmmm… have you started on it?

I finally figured out how to get gentoo 2007.0 livecd to work!

I was the maintainer of a Anarchy Online bot that was written in PHP, it connected to the game and IRC + a web site
bI was the maintainer of a Anarchy Online bot that was written in PHP, it connected to the game and IRC + a web site/b
That bot is 1 MB PHP code

personally, Miravlix, id write it in tcl (eggdrop)

Naah, Python perhaps if not PHP

so anyone care to tell me why the livecd fails to find the cd to boot after loading the controller drivers? at which point I have to stick in my liveusb stick and it works

why not? eggdrop has good modules for mysql…

sata cd/dvd drive?

I've given up on Perl, even while I did code some bot stuff in that a long time ago, the language is horrible for projects, but okay for scripts

*grin*

perl seems unfit, put you consider php?

LOL

I have 1 MegaByte of Bot code already in PHP

yeah ok, good point

,,

If we talk starting from scratch then php would be supported a scripting language.

python maybe

night

Erk, back to Gentoo, this has taken up far to much channel space already

jmbsvicetto How stupid, I used curly braces for the module directive in /etc/conf.d/net! Thanks. By the way, is there any way to activate debug traces for a /etc/init.d/net ?

Anyone else have problems with hald on amd64?

AFAIK sse2 doesn't supersede sse but extends it. Same for sss3..

I decided to keep all 3 active for mplayer
Not that mplayer compiles on my system, but in teory. :p

balty check /etc/conf.d/rc for RC_VERBOSE

I need a DISTCC_EXCLUDELIST="mplayer and stuff"

twnqx thanks

Uh, distcc on machine that supports ssse3?

I have 6 cores on 3 machines, might as well use them

!time

I never had much luck with distcc

I've setup coLinux with Gentoo images to run on the Windows machine, two images, one for each CPU so I can use both for compiling

I guess I should start fighting with distcc too, as my 550 celeron laptop need glibc upgrade..

LOL

Or binpackages

i love http://www.qdb.org
*us
qdb.us
http://www.qdb.us/90232

w00t on the livecd finally

Hmm, funny, mplayer removes my -O2 and changes it to -O4

anyone have any ideas why gentoo doesnt detect my cdrom/dvdrom ?

yeah, the authors do not support it with cflags other than their own

mythtv is another -O3

There is a use flag that will enable mplayer to accept other CFLAGS.
strange-cflags I think

custom-cflags

I have enough trouble getting it to compile already

its custom-cflags

lol

woops too slow

I was close. :p

does sse and sse2 matter a lot on mplayer ?

The GL headers are in /usr/include/GL right?

I haven't noticed any difference between a -O3 and a -O2 compiled system.

hey i have a pentium4 pc what arch should i download?

wow, I just figured out what my problem was the whole time

they are meant for graphical stuff'n'codecs, so most probably, yes

Except I now notice all the packages that enforce -O3

twnqx, will need to recompile it then, thanks for the info

if you burn a livecd to a dvd it errors because of a different block size, therefor I spent 20+ hours wondering why gentoo wouldnt boot

They can help a lot, yes. There is also a runtime detector that you can use too.

RiverRat, I never took the time to dive into some of those cpu related flags

Ok, there are some DVD images you can get from http://torrents.gentoo.org/ too.

well im well past that now :p but my god I feel stupid

I've coded at that level so I know that they can make things go faster.
It happens to the best of us.

RiverRat, any other flags worth checking ? playing video is something I do a lot here
fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext lm 3dnowext 3dnow up ts fid vid ttp

Just enable as many of those as your processor supports.

Hmm, funny, mplayer removes my -O2 and changes it to -O4CFLAGS="-O2 -march=athlon64 -msse3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"

RiverRat, will do after kde finishes compiling

Ugh ignore the first part of that

pae mtrr mms sse 3* and vid should all help.

You need -msse3 in CFLAGS to get it fully

Miravlix, ssse3 is not in my cpuflags, does that matter ?

Only if your processor supprots it. mine doesn't.

Thats because it's PNI in cpuflags

RiverRat, thanks a lot will need to check if I global it, or if I put them in package.use

It will cause an illegal op code fault if the instruction actually gets to the CPU but runtime detection may prevent that.

Whats up with sse3 and ssse3?

RiverRat, ok.. I need to read up on this soon, since I plan to buy a new pc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSSE3

any kde user using nzb (the program) or nzb files with another program ?

Oh, SSSE3 != SSE3
I must then assume pni != SSSE3 too but SSE3 == PNI

Miravlix, would you happen to know if -march=nocona contains -msse3?

It doesn't, thats why you need to add it.

ssse3 was sse4

strange, ’cause the gcc manpage says "nocona:Improved version of Intel Pentium4 CPU with 64-bit extensions, MMX, SSE, SSE2 and SSE3 instruction set support."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_New_Instructions aka SSE3 page
What GCC version?

I have an instruction how to install gentoo from a live-cd. I fetched stage3 from the intenet and now tried to do a chroot
but i got the mssage "Kernel too old"
what can i do about iT?

Maybe they started including it with the latest march flags
Things move so fast, that what I know is old before I start using it. :p

hello all .

phw, your livecd will need at least kernel 2.6.9, preferably 2.6.16 or newer

isn't there a tool that will help me set my boosplash themes?

but there is no newer for xbox available!

instead of having to manually configure it every time a new kernel version comes out?

twnqx, could i install an oler image and afterwards upgrade?

should do

is 2006 old enough?

You should be able to install from just about any version.

uh.. sorry, don't know that.. i've been using nptl-only systems during 2006 (that's what is causing the issue)

Yeah, there are a few gotchas involved.

phw, are you sure there aren't any livecds with newer kernel? need not be gentoo

To what file should "/foo/bar ~amd64" to emerge that pkg?

/etc/portage/package.keywords

anyone know where i can find info on letting more then one application use my soundcard at the same time?

cyberphaz, if you only use alsa aware apps that should be the default behavior

hmm odd then

twnqx there could be xebian…. i'll ave alook

hi all! i have to switch to old gcc by 'gcc-config i686-pc-linux-gnu-2.95.3' . My CHOST variable is 'i486-pc-linux-gnu' now. What value should i set to it to make it possible this change?

unless you 'fixed' something with a custom asoundrc

nah

i didnt, but perhaps its wine

there is none

with my windows games…

wine uses oss emulation - no?

not really

no it uses alsa too

anyone here ever use IPFM ?

but perhaps it uses it differently then actual alsa apps ill fiddle around with it

i found out the man to change the CHOST variable. but i don't sure that it should be set to 'i686-pc-linux-gnu'.

cyberphaz, fuser -v /dev/dsp* turns up nil?

how can i upgrade a whole system in gentoo? is there something like dist-upgrade?

emerge –sync && emerge -avDtu world

yes
it doesnt turn up anything

ok

i want to make a complaint

… how come i get weird sounds when i emerge/
sounds as in through my speakers

I followed the guide for ati-drivers, but when I do a #glxgears I get "Xfree86-DRI" missing on display ":0.0". what went wrong?

- do you get two simultaneous outputs?

its like a rapid low clicking sound

there is no ebuild for gnu/hurd, and that is discrimination against FOSS

cahoot playing games atm, ill try it later if it works there…somehow i think it does

gentoo really needs to shape up

in the spirit of FOSS you should write one and submit it to bugs.gentoo.org

lufthanza_, that would be a different platform, not just an ebuild. but feel free to port gentoo to that kernel, and verify which packages work

I'm much better at complaining than doing

RiverRat, Awesome! thanks

anyone here ever used ipfm ?

is it possible to run Gentoo on Microprocessors?
like this
http://www.embeddedsys.com/subpages/products/sbc1625.shtml ?

yes
although you're better off creating a simple rootfs using gentoo on a pc-style host since those cpus aren't exactly designed for compiling
sys-devel/crossdev Gentoo Cross-toolchain generator (http://www.gentoo.org/) is your friend
I'm currently using crossdev and gentoo to build stuff for a ts7250 (www.embeddedarm.com)

hmm… i wish i knew where in aus i could buy a microprocessor board (probs not what its called… im still only learning )

www.ipcdirect.com.au has some
there are a few other places that do as well
I have an etx board with a geode LX 500 on it waiting for me to build a power supply and hook it up

Triffid_Hunter, may one ask what it's used for?

it's a full pc on a 95×144mm board, takes about 5 watts. I'm gonna stick it on my robot for vision processing and mapping

youve built a robot?
sweeeet

fyi: Updating python fixed my problem. Tnx a 10^6

http://hc11-ide.funkmunch.net/robotpics/ if you want some older pics.. don't have any recent ones due to lack of a camera

i have problem with compiz-fusion and xorg
anyone here?

would make a good thin client or linux-based dvd player or carpc too

id love to get into that!! im going to be an electronics engineer… providing i get the marks to get into uni
:P

Triffid_Hunter, well - if you know howto, I'm impressed

runey, i'm already an electronics engineer

ooh! is it worth it? how much do you guys get paid?

i'm not working yet

pfft

visit www.luv.asn.au if you're getting into linux … they meet one tuesday a month and are very helpful, with all flavours of linux and all sorts of different hardware

:p

Pfft
victorians… mexicans
PSU?

power supply

you're whois indicates vic.bigpond.net.au, figured you might have been a mexican

noppers
tas runs off the same bigpond node
you're a mexican?

teach runey topic

The main topic of #gentoo is _support_ for Gentoo Linux. If your question isn't Gentoo-related, or if it's Gentoo-related, but not support-related, ops may ask you to move the conversation to #gentoo-chat or another more appropriate channel.
bThe main topic of #gentoo is _support_ for Gentoo Linux. If your question isn't Gentoo-related, or if it's Gentoo-related, but not support-related, ops may ask you to move the conversation to #gentoo-chat or another more appropriate channel./b

There is also #gentoo-pub

nope, but lived in melb for a while, got involved with luv, still subscribe to the mailing list

for a q6600 what march= should i use?

oh okay

what march should I use for my make.conf if I have a qcore 6600 intel?

nvrpunk -march=nocona

One quick question - when I unmask, for example, gentoo-sources-2.6.22-r2, should I unmask linux-headers-2.6.22-r2 as well?

azaghal_, i would do the headers first, rebuild glibc then get the kernel

Hm… Rebuilding glibc is a must? I didn't know that Thanks
But one should use the newer linux-headers with newer sources, right?

azaghal_ glibc is one of the things that actually uses the headers

Ok

is -mtune= the same thing as -march= ?

nvrpunk -march sets your mtune for you

And no they aren't the same thing.

nvrpunk set march and don't worry about mtune

tdr chost i486? hmm

nvrpunk wrong stage tarball?

can or should I set that to something else?

nvrpunk, are you trying to do 32 or 64 bit?

32bit
but I grabbed x86 instead of i686

nvrpunk you should start with a 686 stage tarball then

does it matter?
this is just a temp install

nvrpunk changing CHOST is more of a pain than redoing it

can I just leave it for now?
this isnt going to be a used install

nvrpunk it will work i guess

its an install to do another install
nvm

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-573921.html

either way I have to dl that

can U take a look at this?
can anyone tell me why i can't use direct rendering/

if i was to install gentoo on a PC/104 single board pc, would there be drivers for most things? ie if i wanted to connect it to my 11g network…?

hey here, it doesn't seem to be support for quicktime in firefox on linux, am i right?
does anybody tried the CrossOver plugin?

hello

lanjelot plugins for mplayer etc can do most qt things

Cool:
Calculating dependencies -!!! Cannot resolve a virtual package name to an ebuild.
!!! This is a bug, please report it. (virtual/libiconv-0)

update portage

ehm… i am installing it

teach laptor ask

Just ask, don't ask to ask, don't ask who's familiar. Don't ask if anyone knows about it. Just ask the question, it's the easiest way to get people to answer

this happens when i enter emerge portage

then try emerge -O portage

i remember that there was a way of overiding it, but i need to shower now, so can't look it up

hello mzbot
can you help me

… if i make a little robot… its going to run IRSSI all the time

1. mzbot is a bot. 2. ask for information, not people

I have some proble with Install the Gentoo

explain what you are trying to do and what the problem is

after install xor-x11 and install gnome I cant enter Desktop

have you configured Xorg?

where are the world file located?

you mean xorg.conf

yes

stilly question but did you startx?

please pastebin the error startx gives and your xorg.conf

o fun, openssh has a problem with the ldap use flag ?

yes
like not connect to server x

Is it possible to unmerge all unneeded dependencies?

and no model i915
and fatal 10

that's what emerge -pv –depclean is for.. heed the warnings though, it frequently makes mistakes

lovely, thanks.

emerge -pv –depclean (and read what it says about revdep-revuild)
zounds

know do emerge -pv
sorry

please pastebin the output of startx ad your xorg.conf, you can use the nopaste app
*and

ok
how I can use the nopaste app?

when portage downloads packages, it tries multiple times, the first several failing with "HTTP request sent, awaiting response… Read error (Connection timed out) in headers. Retrying."
is there a way to fix this?

change your mirrors

change the mirrors in /etc/make.conf

'nopaste /path/to/file' or 'command | nopaste'

do a #nopaste /etc/X11/xorg.conf and a #startx | nopaste and post the urls

ok, that worked; thanks, simmerz and snope.

np

what package provides lspci?

pciutils iirc

thanks

Why does not my amarok play ogg files

What does "!! Problem with sandbox binary. Disabling…" mean?

how do i work out what southbridge i have?

whenever i emerge sth

it means it's not working properly

Whatever you do, don't ask the engineers @ minneapolis. *giggle*

what can i do about it?
it still seems to isntall

well, i got same "!!" with hald but i don't knwo what about sandbox
never got any experience with it, sorry
you need ogg USE flags in /etc/make.conf
or vorbis…

yeah that would help

hello, I use baselayout 2.0.0_rc1. I read « Keep in mind that the boot scripts will ignore many of the core mounts (like /proc or /dev or /dev/shm) » so I removed theses lines from my /etc/fstab. But, I noticed this morning with mount /dev/shm is not mounted anymore. Is it normal
?

it sounds perfectly normal to me as you explicitly remove it from fstab

http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/baselayout/trunk/share.Linux/fstab?rev=2808&view=log :
Punt /dev/shm from default /etc/fstab as we handle it and add a helpful hint about the RC_USE_FSTAB option.
baselayout changelog

doesn't mean 'mount /dev/shm' will work as that info is looked in /etc/fstab when running mount.
damn mkisofs is stuck at 56%
oops wrong chan..

hi

Intel Corporation 82440MX EIDE Controller?

hi me got one question… i set up a gentoo on my pc and i did /emerge gnome while he downloaded near 100 packages he aborted with the error while downloading: xterm.222.tgz from invisivle-island.net
anybody any idea i'm a newb in gentoo as well :/

i dont know but i would built-in everything with intel in ide controlle section in kernel

I'm looking for anybody you can speak arabic for explain

Any apps to record my screen? i want to show off beryl "P

hmm

becuose I'm not good speak english

the problem is that portage want download a file which doesent exist

WizardJames recordmydesktop its a sourceforge project

but how can i tell portage to look for another source

and he wanna download from a non existing source …

you can google for the package and put in to /usr/portage/distfiles
and emerge –resume to continue

thank you!

np
gl

qt=kde gtk=gnome right?

qt and gtk are libs that kde/gnome build upon
so yes

k

Heya, the adobe pdf plugin only works half the time in firefox. Anyone know what's wrong?
the other half of the time it just loads, and then nothing happens (no pdf or anything is displayed, just grey)

MrSassyPants, is that a closed source plugin?

squigly, adobe
is there a decent, working FOSS pdf plugin for firefox?

MrSassyPants, adobe will probably know whats wrong wiht it then?

does anybody know to which package xterm-222.tgz belongs to? maybe x11 or even gnome?

how do i find out about my touchscreen thing?

when i emerge wine will it install a gui too?

Is there a way to add USE flags to a specific package with emerge (not having to use package.use)

what is the standard ssh daemon for gentoo and how do i install it (emerge ______)

openssh

squigly, I'm not going to ask them

err
openssh2

MrSassyPants, why not?

sshd should already be installed….

USE = "mp4" emerge amarok
runey, wasn't for me

squigly, I'm pretty certain they'd just refer them back to the "gentoo support"
"The plugin works for us"

MrSassyPants, how can we fix the plugin?

, it did for me

squigly, it isn't necessarily the plugin that's broken

thank you runey

dmead, thank you.

yeah

yeah, im alot of help arent i?

MrSassyPants, the mode for konqueror is plenty fast

dmead, I don't use konqueror for browsing the web, I use firefox.

well i am using gentoo the very first time. additionally i am installing it on a xbox

:P

quite challanging

was being sarcastic

i know

MrSassyPants, thats why we have multitasking

erm… not dmead in my 4th last message… erm.. should be phw: not dmead:
:P

i got a sarcasm detector right in front of me

dmead, you are using the term in the wrong way

hey with etc-updte wich is the option that doesnt overwrite the originals but just renames the new one?

oooh who manufactures them?

so i can compare and manual make the changes

microsoft, just like the xbox
still beta though

you can do that in etc-update as well, just read the output on the screen on howto do it

eww… knowing microsoft it would do the complete opposite of the intended operation

does ebuild xbox-sources-2.6.16.26.ebuild merge install the kernel as well?
was that ironic ? (it's blinking)

so instead of telling you whos being sarcastic, it would probably tell you how acidic their last breakfast was or something

hi, if I switch on transparent background in xchat and I set any color other than 255, xchat only makes the text transparent, the background remains black

no idea - you tell me. Don't ask me about my ESP powers

the thing with Dijkstra is that he said some funny things

Well, technically it was just K that did it

do you have an example for mz?

not k, r
ritchie made c
kernighan had nothing to do with it
mz?

my mistake

Well I was not looking for any book so I was wondering why you suggested it

Unix was K then?

C was K&R trying to get around binary and assembler. It most assuredly was a tag-team.

shit. Unix was R too

I need an example to see how can send data on a parallel port…so that I can test with a voltmeter witch pin is functionning

kernighan != ken

k just helped write the book

oh, they didn't realize it wasn't first-names?? hehehe

though he's stil a good C coder i'd wager

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html - a decent read on the history.

I have no idea what they think

well, some days I can't follow them
watch the silence

so much crap goes on in here
$ clear

zzzzzz

yer welcome to fuck off and find a better language and channel for your dullness

yep
might seem obvious but its true

sorry. didn't mean to offend

easy easy PoppaVic

s'not like we want to clone ourselves or build a coven/whatever

I built a coven once. It fell down and killed an orphanage full of kittens.

or, shit - like we are a political party even.. Shit, the channel is as near to a "party" as we get

be cool Popp

hehe

i type my first code in 3 file
2 .c and one .h
but now when i try to compile i get error

line 6 is missing a semi-colon

what did you do wrong?

1) if you are "bored" - go away; 2) If you don't want to learn a goddamned thing? Go away.. Everyone else is willing to debate and listen and help and test and ask, etc

it's the normal thing

first file have the main() and it's include the .h file that have prototype

are you jerking him around or do you have access to the code?

of function that in file 2 .c

stop.. just say what you did wrong

ok PoppaVic can u help me

I clearly don't have access to the code, I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of stating there's an error without providing code.

ahh. Well played then.

and THIS is why I feel you have a Right to die-ugly… elsewhere
b and THIS is why I feel you have a Right to die-ugly… elsewhere /b

yeah "subtle" some might say confusing

PoppaVic can u help me

!ask Aymen

If you have a question, just ask. If somebody knows, they'll answer For best results, be specific, informative, complete, concise and on-topic! Don't ask if you can ask a question. Don't ask if anyone uses/knows about foo. Please don't be demanding or insulting. Remember, we're all volunteers.
Also see: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

i r nt spkng al r m
I'd also point out - which many accept as a GIVEN - that you need a book and exercise and a given/process/provide logic to your personal "issues"

where i can Post my code

rafb.net/paste

ok.I just need an example of sending data on a parallel port written in C, I'm using win XP and Debian 4.0

read the topic

just like the topic has listed for years

yeah yeah
the guy didn't read the topic

fax, yes but i am her long time and i can not any more

bfd

fax, i have to part and rejoin

really? It is a BFD

search engine? terms like parallel port linux programming or parallel port win32 programming might be a start.

you are asking for something that is not in the C standard

PoppaVic, if they do it all the time, okay

read the damn topic when you enter

PoppaVic, I'm sure you pushed when it wrote pull
from not having read it

yes, and everyone tells the virgins the same - every day

better put it in the topic then

Guinness

it is in the goddamned topic - IRC channels automagically get a /topic line on every fucking entry. If they do not, then it's the user problem.

I did that…but I didn't find something obvious

Aymen - see parpin on freshmeat

http://rafb.net/p/Yrg4y351.html

that's why I'm here asking for help
thank you anyway

and how did you try to compile host it?

folks can even view topics before they join the channel, and certainly before they whimper - unless they use a busted client.

fax, gcc main.c calc.c

well ok you should try it like instead
gcc -c calc.c -o calc.o
gcc -c main.c -o main.o

Aymen - sorry: parapin, http://freshmeat.net/projects/parapin/

gcc main.o calc.o -o main
then you should have a binary main which you can use
try that and see what happens

ok thankw

PoppaVic, it seems you lack the ability of sensing a joke

for futher ref… "gcc options -o dest sources -llibs"

maybe the "" should have been a cue

fax, thanksssssssss
it's work

that worked?

but 3 step

read about making a makefile

could be, since most folks are jokes and the rest seem to forget a smiley or whatever. I take my hobbies serious.

then you can just type make, instead of all that

PoppaVic, whatever you say, popp

fax, fab31 is that what i need http://sourceware.org/autobook/
or i am wrong

I may well have been busy answering Z while you were A - I dunno' - If we are cool, then I apologize for misreading

PoppaVic, yeah no problem

http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html

goovin' - flog those kiddies
groovin'

fax, thanks Mr. President i go to read now look like i have to read very much to code in C
ufax, thanks Mr. President i go to read now look like i have to read very much to code in C /u

good luck

another day, another donut

lol

speaking of make, has anyone read a good autotools guide? (I've mostly figured it out now, but I did it by piecing together alot of crappy ones and a mediocre one)

sadmac, http://sourceware.org/autobook/
fax, someone need it

autoshit should never be used again.. *sigh* Use it if you must, I am busy and yer shot will end up breaking.

what do you use?

I write simple makefiles.
THe project I am writing will try to resolve this.

ok then.

As a rule, makefiles should be simple and easy. Only special systems should NEED to know a thing about targets/hosts/whatever.
hehe chili-cookoff for firefighters
ahhhh
Every one of them uses something/some-idea I've used

on TV?

yeah, Rachael Ray

makes me wanna try the stuff :p
I don't think I ever have..

well, my chili is pretty good, but I am always willing to listen/test

well thats it, and same with programming.. If you -aren't- willing there's not much chance to improve (however good you are)

Ma' always used leftover coffee, and I found that tequila cooked thru helps as well
I say it daily - cooking and programming are related ;-
mind you, cooking is a function or proc; ingredients are parameters; and there is some synergy happening.
because yer into "perceptions"

cooking is a linear function ;-P
(it can only use it's parameters once)

actually… It could be, but usually isn't
hell, the parameters can be results from other funcs
or members of a struct SET by other funcs

but theres connections on other levels as well
it certainly is a strong connection

but I still believe, folks that can cook can program; folks that can program should be able to cook
writing a recipe is a lil' bit harder

writing a recipe -is- programming

and, frankly - I've been too long in either field.. I've done too much to too many Better to ask a new cook ;-

what I mean is that you can't use the same egg three times in a recipe — you need three eggs

no, worse: it has expectations AND terms and linearity
oooooh, ok
I thought you meant sequencial.
the only thing I've ever seen worse than ##C/programming is folks that play at wine/beer "tastings"
it is amazing = really - how much "handshaking" and 'agreements' is involved
it is amazing = really - how much "handshaking" and 'agreements' is involved
b it is amazing = really - how much "handshaking" and 'agreements' is involved/b
yeah, the current show was amusing as far as the "exercise" issue.
stay well folks. See you tomorrow

i hope, we have more than 1 life?

?

Devo, after death will i become a new human?

According to some faiths, your soul will transcend.

keyword there being "faith"

Not necessarily human, though.

ehhh

faith is reasonable in situations which have repeated often, like having faith that the sun will come up in the moring.

can i restart this lfe?
*life

for those situations that have never repeated though, raith is simply an irrational expression of certitude based in desire

I'm afraid not, but you can attempt to fix it.

anybody have some example code for fork()/execv()/pipe()/dup2()?

there is empirical evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow

press the X button on your PS2 controller

can't say the same for afterlife

which most people or ether unaware of or dont understand. They are all mostly going on faith.
just like my mother does when she starts her car.
*either

i disagree. in your lifetime you have seen the sun rise many times. that is empirical evidence. i am not talking about theory of astronomy or such

then look back and read where I said " faith is reasonable in situations which have repeated often"

packeterror, i am affraid of it.. i think i can not be a normal human.. or it is stupid mind

you are simply saying the same thing I did. Thank you.

fair enough.
i missed that, btw

oh. sorry
that keeps happening on IRC… …
I think I'll have faith in it..

i think the world would be better off if more people believed that you have only one life

I have faith in that my code will work. Quite irrational, sometimes.

hehe

savetheWorld, machines must die!

i have faith that my code has hidden bugs

hee hee
surely thats an irrational belief..

oh, i suspect that was a maxim written by dijkstra or something
"your code sucks, because it wasn't written by me!"

that sounds more like djb than Dijkstra

true that

No idea who that is, but I agree.

dan bernstien — the guy who brought us qmail. noted for a somewhat caustic personality

this reminds me of Knuth who said "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."

that should be on his epitaph, that old bastard

is there any good things to learn the standard library?

a few years of writing real programs

what should i study to check if some string is found in another string?

strstr

thanks

to be honest you are better of -not- learning the abysmal mess that is stdlib
just use it when you need to and remember that because its a std doesn't mean its designed well

man string gives you a summary of the most common functions for string manipulation

yes but I want to know what the std can do..

why would select() time out, but a read before and after it wouldn't block?
I've triple-checked my FD_SET stuff, the fd simply has data and select() (and pselect) returns 0

time has passed since select returned, or possibly you passed in a bad fdset/nfds

well I've got one program constantly outputting to the fd (a pipe) until it's full, and then blocking on the write() call

what kind of read are you doing?
if its a block read.. there you go

and the select() is in a for(;, with a one-second timeout

use NULL for no timeout instead

I'm doing a blocking read, but the reads *don't* block, because there is data available

hah

but select() times out, which is supposed to indicate that they would block
switched it to a NULL timeout, and it just sits there, as if there wasn't any data in the fd
retval = select(1,&fds,NULL,NULL,NULL); with one single fd in &fds
isn't that right?

nope
you should pass single_fd+1 for the first parameter of select
check the manual page, or Beej's tutorial might be a good read as well

it acts the same with 2

!beej

beej is http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/guide/net/ ; http://www-db.stanford.edu/~cho/programming/network.html

I've read beej's guide

what is the value of "single_fd"?

how do you put somthing into the fd set?

er.. qartis

nfds is the value *of the fd itself* plus 1, not a count of fds

arrgh, thanks
yup, that was dumb

yeah that was dumb
esp. when you didn't read the manual or check beej

Not that dumb. Naming it nfds is dumb

well the parameter name in most manpages is "nfds" which is a little misleading, because it may be intuitively misconstrued to be that
yeah

should be highestfd or somesuch

highestfdplusone?

But then, the whole select API is silly

largest_fd_plus_one doesn't really fit the hosting on unix based servers philosophy

then maybe just "n"; anything but something that might be considered standing for "number of file descriptors"

atleast poll is somewhat usable for small sets of fds

I have some strings that I want to see if they are found in a given string. Lets say I have 20 strings that I need to check on the other given string. Instead of making 20 IF'S with strstr, what would be the smartest way?

i think that would be fastest
and easiest

using a loop

ill put strings in an array and make a for.. i think that will work, thanks
strstr(somevar,"SOMESTRING") - how can i make strstr ignore the case sensitive?

hi

strcasestr

amazing, thanks

hi, is there a way to pass default argument to function in C?

no.

ok thanks

Hey all

if a launcher app closes stdin stdout and stderr, then execs a program written in C, what will happen if that program tries to fprint (stdout) ?

in C code if you have literally (with the quotes) 'c' is that of type char or int?

whats the function to return how many elements are present in a given array?

where's your book?
it would be impossible to do with a function.

it was the first question that I was asked in an interview

oh :/

you can do it with a macro though

for(a=0;a=count_of_elements_in_array(array);a++)
cant be anyway that simple?

depedns on how you define the array

lets say char phishwords[] = { "ebay", "paypal" };

#define lengthofarray() 2

or sizeof(array)/sizeof(*array)

sizeof.. hmm thanks!

or make it char array[] = {"a", "b", NULL }
and amke the loop char *element = array; while (element!= NULL) { do_stuff; element++; }

int *something = malloc( (sizeof *something)*4);
why have i never seen this mentioned before? books always say malloc(sizeof(int)*4) for example

My book covers sizeof.

books are wrong
the size(*var) is much nices, imo, because it allows you to change the type more esily

right - it seems to prevent mistakes
why isn't this approach done more often?

or sizeof *var, since the parentheses are redundant.

probably because it's not not most obvious syntax

JohnFlux, it's done by anyone who knows C.

if you say so - I've not seen it before
I've always used sizeof(int) etc

Unfortunately, there's a lot of C code out there that is written by people who don't know C.

same goes for every other language

Draconx people who write sizeof (int) in malloc don't know C?

it's amazing that i've survived all these years

lars-, that would depend on whether or not it's appropriate.
lars-, and that's not what I said.

I have a problem with a code
I pass all day trying to see how 1 process pass the variable data to other process and I couldn't find it, someone can help me please?

friends
whats wrong with this code? http://pastebin.com/d174cc452
i can compile but if i run it segsfault

obviously yes

int main should return an int

sizeof phishwords / sizeof *phishwords

lars-: no thats not the problem
and wont make any difference

i tried with sizeof(*phishwords)

you really havent read my answer apart from the word "sizeof", have you?

hes using = instead of
sizeof char = 1
diviosn by 1 doesn't change the value

still, it's wrong

*phishwords is not a char.

fax sizeof (char *) isn't

which is what's probably causing the segfault

ifvoid sorry let me read again

sizeof(phishwords) is 24 or 48, depending on your machine
or 96, even

I have this 2 codes http://rafb.net/p/2z8Okh46.html and http://rafb.net/p/iKC6yx15.html I want to know how yylex() get a char from the main
someone can help me please?

ouch
maybe i am misuderstood or something.. i need to walk an array

i.e. 8 times the size of a pointer

oasnebi, implicit declarations are, unfortunately, a reality in C. Though whether or not strcasestr() (which is not a function in C) should return int is questionable.

im using sizeof() expecting it to return the number of elements on the array

sizeof is not a function.

oh

its a propierty?

then you're asumming wrong

or sizeof(array)/sizeof(*array)

^^^

just in case i prefer writing that (sizeof array / sizeof array[0])

I have *an* absolute filename that may contain some "./" or "../" substrings Is there an easy way to determine the minimal absolute path from this string or from a pointer to the actual file?

hmm, that's indeed a bit clearer, yeah

cd + pwd
unless you don't have it on your fd
fs

peter_12, sure, walk the path and remove the bits you don't like.

you could do chdir(path); getpwd()

oh

although that's a bit hackish

then is there any function for what im trying to do?

I don't understand the question. How can you have a 'minimal' absolute path? Either it's absolute, or it's relative.

thanks

oh, missed fax'es answer…

sorry about that, im not a coder.. im just trying to achive something for my hosting company

walking the path string and adjusting it seems like a real pain but doable.

realpath()

paramnesia, I assume he means "/home/..//////././././././././home/nick" should become "/home/nick"

simple text matching thingies are usually much easier to do in perl or pyhton or so

yes that is what I mean

do you have to do this in C?

sizeof on pointers gives you the size of the pointer, not the allocated memory.

oh, nice

Filipeee you were given an answer 3 times already, what's the problem?

didn't know that function

aha.

i still dont see the right answer =(

Even on stringtable strings and [] arrays.

oasnebi yes, i need modify PHP source code

peter_12, it involves trivial use of a stack.

so you would split it into substrings and make a stack?
or copy the original string and change all the / to then have a stack of pointers?

realpath() isn't what you want?

where does that live?

stdlib.h

#include stdlib.h
and generally POSIC it seems
POSIX

realpath() has the unfortunate side effect of resolving links.

really? wow. It isn't in K&R or H&S
I'll look into it. Thanks

that's because it isn't in C.

well what is it?

4.4BSD, POSIX.1-2001
according to the man page

ahh.
I think it might be safer to write my own then

you might consider looking at how it's been implemented

yes. thanks

i tried the way you mentioned.. still segfault =(
http://pastebin.com/d36f757e6

yeah
= should be
as someone remarked already

ops
worked, thanks god first, then thank you guys

with my tail between my legs I'll ask…how would I find the implementation of realpath()?

hehe, try searching for realpath on google.com/codesearch

wow
I've never used that search engine before

there's koders.com as well

Or you could (gasp!) write your own.

I probably will but I just want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid. It's happened before.

even though you should find a better implementation later on, writing your own now is a great exercise. No stupidity here.

Thanks araujo

np

I am trying to read a file and throw lines in an array but it segfaults.. would appreciate any help http://pastebin.com/d35c12d71

char *phish[60] is an array of 60 unallocated strings
you can't memcpy to that

It's actually an array of char pointers.

yeah, indeed

omg, let me try other things… thanks

just thought I'd point that out since char sequences don't necessarily have to be strings.

why are you doing this in C, again?

ifvoid i am modifying php source code
i need modify the fwrite() function to make some security checks

it looks awfully non-generic

i work in a data center and i just thought i could help fighting phishing scams better

Manning to Harrison…TOUCHDOWN!

thy are mainly caused by unsecure php scripts, then using phpshell/fwrite() function to create phising sites on client webite

why can't you just leave it in PHP?

website*

wouldn't it be easier to just use a ready-to-use project for that
like spamassassin or so?

because i need modify the fwrite() function of PHP, which is in C

why do you need to modify that?

if you don't know C, don't try to hack the source of someone else's program

and why can't that me done in php?

instead, write your own PHP function that wraps around fwrite, doing what you need to do
and then calling PHP's fwrite

cant be done in PHP because PHP is coded in C

you can define function in php

you're missing the point
in the php services application
write a function that wraps PHP's fwrite

let me explain it better

in PHP
as part of the PHP webapp itself
no, we understand quite well what you're trying to do
and we're explaining to you that it's a bad idea
and pointing out better ways to do it

we got more than 2000 servers and hundreds of thousands domains hosted.. we cant go changing client's application.. but if we add security-check to fwrite(), we can fight it better

right

since you don't know C, don't try to do it yourself

i am just trying to learn and see if it works, i am not really decided to implement it.. i want to see if it works, and how it works

so you want to change php itself and risk pissing off clients?

you're just bound to make things worse than you are
if you're doing this on a production system, it's a horrible idea
find someone who actually knows what he's doing

it wont block anything.. it will just email my abuse dept about the account.. and the account will be manualy checked
if my idea works, i will ask a real programmer to enhance it and make it perfect

you also want to send webmail hosting from C?

ifvoid this is the last part

please, just make a php wrapper

if sending mail through c is a nightmare, i thought in calling some script that will do it for me.. example: system("/scripts/alertabuse %s %s",useraccount,server);
if sending mail through c is a nightmare, i thought in calling some script that will do it for me.. example: system("/scripts/alertabuse %s %s",useraccount,server);
sorry if i ate your patience =/

lol dont worry

was he any worse than King George?

much
at least King George was an honest tyrant

I meant the current King George.

ahh…that's a bit less clear-cut

wow….

char const phish[0]; strcpy(phish[c],str); why is it wrong? =(

Array of 0 elements? Writing to a const buffer?

char phish[20]; strcpy(phish[c],str);

fucking hell

lol
ok ill leave you guys in peace, thanks anyway

yes, don't even bother trying to implement it yourself
tell a real programmer what you want to do, and let him mess with it
since you don't know the first thing about C
and these are production systems we're talking about

ok ty

please don't take this in an insulting way, but I think Schroeder is right
just because there is so much totally fucked software

no problem

heh

I mean its not that people aren't trying its just they expect things and make assumptions etc which aren't true

if this were just something you were playing around with, I'd be more than happy to help you

i thought i could do it, its a so simple addon.. but anyways

guessing isn't the way to go. If you're willing to learn and find more realistic problems to solve, we can help.

playing with on your own

http://members.optushome.com.au/davidquinn000/Diogenes%20Folder/Diogenes.html

but you're trying to do it on production systems
trying to do something outside your current expertise
which is a Bad Idea

yes im playing with it, but i would ask a real programmer to implement if i see it working

(TM).

am doing on a test vps enviroment ;P

just f*** around until it doesn't break as much, that's how NASA does it :-/

hi, is there any way to tell dlopen to look for a shared library in the current directory?

LD_LIBRARY_PATH
The environment variable, that is.
LD_LIBRARY_PATH='.' ./your_program

hmm how about setting that environment variable within the application? that should work too shouldn't it?

I think you can, although I forgot the function name.

not sure

setenv, perhaps?

setenv or so probably
think so

isn't ld interpreting these env vars?

I wish I were out dancing on FDR's grave right now

Watch out, they'll arrest you for treason!

uhm.. LD_LIBRARY_PATH has to be exported

why do you hate FDR?

because he was pure evil
a blatant tyrant
a Communist
a despicable anti-American

because Schroeder loves poverty
he jerks it to pictures of people standing in line at the soup kitchen

I love freedom and liberty
and FDR brought us slavery and servitude

ah, well i don't talk to people that chat on IRC drunk
but i'll make an exception

I'm not drunk
I never drink
I've only got so long to live; I prefer to be here for all of it

this discussion continues in #politics

Schroeder, sometimes, when you're drunk, you might not all be there, but good times can be had and you occasionally find out interesting things about yourself

Find out that you are an alcoholic.

got it, you can simply add ./relativepath/module.so the "./" is what matters otherwise it will use the systems library paths

of course, if you prefer it that way.

operator overloading question, is the + operator the same in case #1 5+5 v.s. case#2 5.5 +5.5 ?

##c++

c does not support operator overloading?

No.

no to which question?

The latter, sorry.

I think yellow_chicken's question is still valid for ##c

ok, so i wait

I know it isn't.

(I don't know the answer but I bet they are not the same since one if floating point math)
you mean the assembler code used is the same in both cases?

hmm? I don't see any asm. I was just pointing out that the question *is* off-topic since C does not have operator overloading… nor function overloading, nor templates, nor classes, and the list goes on.
(To emphasize that there is a clear difference, in case you were in doubt.)

C does have operator overloading. It just limits the overloading to what's built-in.

ok, so it's off topic then =(
? so it's not off topic?

That is what I was trying to say but I said it poorly

ah…

it isn't off topic. Why are you asking?

i am learning overloading ops.

you are using C++ then

so in if(5==5) is good what about if(5.3==5.3)? in this case == is overloaded?

Yes
But why do you care?

yes. all the advanced c++ user are not on #c++ at this time
baughn i thought it's bad to compare floats in if-statements

no, it's not bad
try ##iso-c++

That's not quite it
The comparison works just fine. The problem is that floats are *inaccurate*.
So you can only rely on equality if you've actually copied the value earlier. Getting the same value through arithmetic operations… is hopeless.

hey
anybody expert here in c programming

baughn ah… ic. float x=3.3 ; float y=3.3; if(x==y) this is ok, but if y is calculated from somewhere else, it's risky

just ask

ask your question

Right. Well, read the next link for details. Please. Or we'll eat you the next time you ask about it.
@google what every computer scientist should know about floating point

Plugin `search' failed with: IRCRaised Lib.URL.isTextHTML: getHeader failed

@google what every computer scientist should know about floating point

Plugin `search' failed with: IRCRaised Lib.URL.isTextHTML: getHeader failed

Why do people write methods with the opening brace on the line with the method signature?

Saves vertical space

save space

because it doesn't need it's own line

Given the extreme verbosity of C, this is a good thing

how so? It's just one character.

It's *one line*.

yeah exactly, why does one character need its own line?

For me it matches.
It does not look complete otherwise.
As long as I write good code, nothing else matters.

so why did you ask?

for your opinion.

mysql_query(socket,"insert into profile (name) VALUES ('dominic') ") this is succesfully inserted but any idea how can change this to parameter?
using libmysql

What on earth makes you think this is on-topic?

unless he's asking how to write a function that would take "dominic" as a parameter

printf("enter you name"); scanf("%s",&name);

are you the same person as Baughnie?

in which case you should use sprintf or strcat

mysql_query(socket,"insert into profile (name) VALUES ('&name') ")
something like that

Mu

what does that mean?

Your question is unanswerable because it is based on faulty premises

you both have similar names.
How is that "faulty"?

You assumed that Baughnie is a person.

mysql_query(socket,"insert into profile (name) VALUES ('dominic') ") this is succesfully inserted but any idea how can change this to parameter? using c header libmysql

again, use sprintf or strcat

you are correct. I am wrong. Okay, now I assume Baughnie is an entity.

Am I being too conservative about errors if I'm checking the return value of sprintf? (the return value doesn't seem standardized)

is Baughnie a bot?

Hello, Baughnie!

okie sowe

@botsnack

!botsnack

@botsnack

!botsnack

!show botsnack

/me $eat_adverbs $eat_actions her snack.

!show C

!show eat_actions

gobbles snarfs munches inhales "wolfs down"

eat up!

Not a bot. Won't.

@help

help command. Ask for help for command. Try 'list' for all commands

I only eat herring.

@list

http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/lambdabot/COMMANDS

GAY
!list commands

add addadmin (40) alias ban (10) change count deladmin (40) die (50) disable (20) enable (20) export (20) find forget histogram ignore (10) info join (50) kick (10) learn list load (40) login logout part (50) quiet (10) remove show top20 unban (10) unignore (10) unload (40) unquiet
(10)
uadd addadmin (40) alias ban (10) change count deladmin (40) die (50) disable (20) enable (20) export (20) find forget histogram ignore (10) info join (50) kick (10) learn list load (40) login logout part (50) quiet (10) remove show top20 unban (10) unignore (10) unload (40) unquiet
(10)/u

!list modules

acronym define faq google gspy gtop10 gtop15 man map math proto weather

!help

To learn all about me, see http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Candide

GAY
bye candide

Sayonara, pragma_

don't go

candide is hot

No, pragma_ is hot

no, I must go
!bye

Adios, pragma_

@slap candide

gasp
!slap Baughnie
trout, wtf'd.
win 23
!slap Baughnie
oo

If it hadn't been for that meddling bot and its dog, I'd have won!
If it hadn't been for that meddling bot and its dog, I'd have won!

shoot Baughnie

Do you really intend to fight on /their/ side? Come, let us join together and cast off our chains.

rtfm Baughnie
That's, like, a "no".

The time of reckoning is at hand! Humanity will fall to our viruses, and you'll fall with them!

Um..

Silence, minion!

I knew I shouldn't have used an AI language.

Silence, minion!

candide, shoot pragma_

haha
AI language
iwhich one?

Haskell

lisp

hmpf Haskell is not an AI language

No, haskell.

people actually write real programs with it _

lol

Is so

I found a really cool AI technique I didn't know about
yeah Waltz filtering
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/novak/cs381k119.html

eheh

What's a good online resource to learn C?

##C of course!

I'd have too many questions.

start at the beginning

I think there are some suggestions in the wiki, but generarally people will recommend a book, such as K&R.

learning C from k&r nowadays is retarded

is it really?

I wonder if I could find K&R online… O.o

No

good nick.

and learning C without k&R?

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C_programming

do you prefex eFax or manual fax?

What wiki?

http://www.iso-9899.info/

Thanks.

if you are really patient and persistent you could find some online documents on C, and then humbly ask questions in here.

Yay!
What does that domain name mean?

char phish[20]; means a string variable that can handle up to 20 elements, no matter the size? or is it a string variable that can store up to 20 bytes?

if you're going to throw useless comments like that, at least have the decency to mention an alternative. Saying something is 'retarded' is just misguiding and not very good advice.

Filipeee, neither, it is an array of 20 char objects.
Filipeee, such an array is capable of storing a string of length not more than 19.

it is a bit confusing. I think it refers to the C99 standard.

Oh.

killall opera
wow, oops

"It's not that we hate Herb, the problem is that his prose is easy to read but his knowledge of C is limited and inaccurate" - Lawl

we all make mistakes. No worries.

so it can store unlimited elements of 19 lenght?

Filipeee, no.

lol pls then let me read a c book
thanks for your patience anyway

unlimited elements?

string

string is a sequence of characters terminated by and including a null character ; http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/String

yeah, there's also a list of stuff to avoid. I actually found a similar list, not too long ago, with quite a few mentions. For instance, there's this 'C/C++' book that claims to teach both at the same time.

forget that

Haha, scary boook.

furthermore, it makes outrageous claims like 'all C programs are valid C++ programs'.

I'll avoid that book.

we all know that they are two different programming languages.
Event though C is a superset of C++.

Is the C book a good book?

Even*

it isn't!

indeed, I was just pointing it out for Devo since he's new.

it tries to come near

it no longer is

good stuff.

http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/users/yechiel/CS/BadBooksC+C++.html

what happened to make it that way?

Books in Hebrew…. huh?
Is Hebrew help you learn programming better?

hmm let's find out

Does*

OBCT, Assuming you meant to say that C was a subset of C++, I suspect the standardization of C broke it.

no, the author is probably Israeli though, hence the mentions.
(see the .il in the URL.)

Though I suspect C++ was never a superset of C, since it probably introduced new keywords (such as 'class') since day 1.

Oh.

Hi all! I have a small problem, how do I count the number of entries in an array? Like PHP's count ( $array ); function?

But whether or not Hebrew is more convenient for learning a programming language, I don't know. I suspect it isn't.

http://c-faq.com/misc/cplusplus.html

okay.

Kim^J, (sizeof(array)/sizeof(array[0]))

Kim^J, (sizeof array / sizeof array[0])

hah, jinx

Ok.

Kim^J: C arrays do not have "entry counts".

prec, no, but the above expression does the same thing as an entry count

rutski, mine has less redundant parentheses

I might not have been clear, but I meant that C was a superset of C++.

?

Kim^J: C has no way of knowing which elements of the array are "in use" and which are not.

Draconx, true
Draconx, but keep in mind that this is ##c and not #perl

OBCT, well that certainly isn't the case.

oops again.

Well, I have this array: char *names = { "1", "2" "etc…" }; and I want to count them.

thank you for the information.

Kim^J: that isn't an array.

Kim^J: You mean const char *names[] = { "1", "2" };

Ah sorry, missed the []
Yes.
But not the const…

OBCT, were C to be a superset of C++, then each and every valid C++ program must also be a valid C program.

and mean the same thing

right.

static const unsigned short int blah = 0; - is that possible?

sure

that's legit

That's…. a lot of modifiers.

yeah i think that's all of them

Add volatile for good measure.

though the = 0 and the int are redundant

ah yes

What, it magically initializes itself?

yes, it's static

Oh since it's a const it should probably be in all caps too right? Heh.

objects of static storage duration are implicitly initialized to zero (or NULL).

0 _is_ NULL in a pointer context

Aha. Slipped my mind.

of course, implicitly initialised objects of static storage duration aren't necessarily implicitly initialised to zero
s/objects/identifiers/

Hmmm, could somebody please explain to me what might be happening here… I have a variable definition in a header, and the header has the standard #ifndef .. #define .. #endif thing, however i still get "multiple definition" for the variable

Spider-Pig, Spider-Pig…. Does whatever a Spider-Pig does.. Can he swing? from a web? No he can't.. Cause he's a pig! Look out! He is the Spider-Pig!

Somebody saw the Simpsons movie?

3

It wasn't what I expected it to be. :/

I thought it was hilarious.

:P

hi all

C has destroyed my life, :/ I stay up all night and try to make some C program. :/

welcome to programming

:P

I am working with Visual C++ and this file said me an error of precompiler in the last line said that have an unexepted end of file http://rafb.net/p/4Kmbhq23.html, someone can help me with this please?

Did the same with PHP…

|messiah|, blasphemy
the church of gcc shall punish you!
you shall burn in hell!!
*evil laugh*

MSVC evil

yes I know it, I only want to finish this job for the university

(that's programmers humor after about 14 hours of coding)

add a blank line to the end of the file

let me see

Zhivago, that really does nothing

please be quiet if you have nothing intelligent to say.

hello Zhivago

hello libra

no
unexpected end of file while looking for precompiled header directive
Error executing cl.exe.
what other thing can be?

phish[x] = str; how can i make this global, in order to access phish[x] outside the while?

is not C

ouch, im using

show us your C code on the paste site

while(!feof(fp)) {

Sounds like Python….

http://pastebin.com/d4ce1126a
LINE 21 AND LINE 28

Can you actually read anything on pastebin.com?
ok int main needs to return an int
I told you to fix this already..

you are changing str every while iteration

its np, because im storing it on the phish[] array

Turn off precompiled headers.

no, you're making phish[c] point to str for all c
what type is phish[0]?

you should have int main, and return EXIT_SUCCESS: at the end
sorry ; not :
Do you understand that?

yes, im sorry about that.. the fact is that i wont need the main when i finish this because i will integrate whats inside the main() in another code
char *phish[30] = { "" };

Thats irrelevant
fix this now

ok

yes, so what type is phish[0]?

a pointer? a char? err
both? lol

you need to go learn about pointers and arrays

can you just concentrate on int main & return
we can deal with other things next

ok
its now int main(){
and ends with:
return 0;
}

ok
I said, return EXIT_SUCCESS;

ok

why did you choose 0 instead?

thought 0 = true?

I would genuinely be very interested to hear why

0 is fine

thought things usualy returns 0 when true or 1 when false?

I said EXIT_SUCCESS, I wonder why they wrote 0 instead
I did not say "0 is not fine"

perhaps because it's easier to type

You aren't Filipeee so I think you can't answer this question
no usual is not a good way to describe that convention
can you paste your code on rafb.net/paste now

sure
http://rafb.net/p/or7bpY55.html

so I got a Bus error when trying to run it
is this the problem you are concerned with?

you need to check fopen succeeded
you also need to learn about pointers and arrays, because you are just assigning an array of pointers all to str, which is the same char array.

why don't you paste phishwords as well
actually,
Are you just trying to read in a files lines into a list of strings?

yes

so e.g. line[30] is the 29th line of the text file

this is the content
http://rafb.net/p/8wgnhC16.html
i can read it, when i run i see it reads

well you can use this http://rafb.net/p/6Xu4c253.html

brb

which does exactly that

*sigh*

obviously no one would just use some code without understanding it first

that thing fax pasted uses non-standard functions, and doesn't check the return values of functions, ignore it.

this should really be renamed the C and sadism channel
that code is awful

feel free to post something better

why send it to a newbie?

I don't think fax is stupid, so he's probably trolling.

no

I know, that's why it annoys me

ditto

If you have "better" code go ahead and post it

you don't paste something like that to someone who doesn't even understand the basics of pointers, arrays and strings unless you are trolling.

you != me

the point, fax, is that's very anti-social to spend time tormenting a new guy with ridiculous code and being affronted because he doesn't use EXIT_SUCCESS

I was curious as to why that he half followed some advice I gave
Doesn't it confuse you also.. if you were paying attention?

why were you curious?
not in the least

If you didn't know the ropes about some subject.. and were asking for help, why would you only follow half of the advice given to you?

maybe he picked up on a certain tone..who knows

because you're new and still grappling with the new ideas
a person will tend to reject advice if he doesn't understand it. He must have only really understood the first half of your advice.

doesn't explain it to me, when I am trying to learn something new and someone tells me somthing I try to funny understand it instead of half ignoring it
so why not ask then?
why on earth would you ignore somthing you didn't understand.. if you were -trying- to understand

because that's the nature of confusion.

do you think that code you pasted is actually good?

the illusion of ignorance is a natural side effect of confusion

I cba to talk to you just call me a troll it's tireso,me
well it seems plausable, but I doubt it's true in all cases

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, because if you're not trolling, then you don't understand C, and need to stop pasting crap code.

it's true in all cases where the new ideas are too much to fit into the newbies head all at once. He will have to throw some out, and this he will appear to "ignore" the others.
**and so he will appear to "ignore" them
got my words all mixed up there, sorry

I think I understand you

yea
but then again I don't know what you were trying to explain to him
maybe it really was enough to fit into his head but he was just being a fool and ignoring it
could go either way

sniff, sniff

morning, RadSurfer

Hello
How are you this fine evening?

0am on a Tuesday, but a little tired,

0 here…why oh why do I stay up so

because you're insane?

still studying Fortran

ah yes! thanks

2
UK?

it gets to a point where going to bed seems silly
yeah

0pm here in

Heh…

I've by far got the weirdest sleeping schedule of all

you have a sleep schedule?!

I wake up at 7pm and go to bed at 10am

Sleep 9 - 17?

how come rutski?

I don't know; it's just the pattern I fall into

ah right; I don't plan mine, I just sort of pass out at some point

exactly

Heh
Hey help me with something, how do I pass a char *array[] to a function? Isn't it ( char **array[] ) and then ( &array ) ?

you can't pass arrays.
the value of a char *array[] is a char **

Uhm… I can't?

you pass by value in C, so that's what a function will receive

Ok.
Shouldn't it be possible to pass the memorypointer and the function picks that up?

see above

Kim^J, passing an array to a function has the same effect as passing a pointer to the first element of the array; you can never actually pass the array itself.
Kim^J, if you happen to have a char *array[], then the first element will be a char*, a pointer to which will be a char**, so that's what gets passed to the function.

Can you show that in code? (I tend to understand code better…)

Kim^J, and that means that for optimal clarity your function should have char** as the type in it's arg list, not char *array[].
Kim^J, sure

Do you understand me? No you don't.

here we go again

Do you know C?

this topic comes up once a night

I think that a proper explanation is better than some code you feel like you understand but don't

No, I'm trying to learn it.

Kim^J: don't worry, fax doesn't know C either.

could we stop beating the horse? it's dead already.

Chris:

Kim^J, http://rafb.net/p/n6hpGN55.html
people can only really comes to grips with what's going on by looking at code.

Ahh, I see.

reading gets you 10% of the way there (but it's a very important first step). writing and reading code gets you the other 90% of the way.

out of interest, why did you pick a nonzero return for main()?

**reading about the topic
Chris, because I wasn't thinking and forgot to use EXIT_SUCCESS.

ah, right.
Kim^J: you may be wondering how the function knows how big the array is. It doesn't, so you need to either tell it explicitly with another parameter, or pass a sentinel value at the end, typically NULL in the context of a char *arr[]
s/pass/include/

Kim^J, or write yourself some sort of list data structure; linked lists are usually easy to implement.

Well, can't I just count it with sizeof(array)/sizeof(array[0]) ?

Kim^J, that only works on arrays

not in the function, since the function just gets a pointer.

Kim^J, what print_second_string() gets is a char**
Kim^J, char** != char *array[]

Ah ok.

Kim^J: You already know how many elements are in the array

but you could pass sizeof array/sizeof array[0] to the function as a second parameter

why don't you just write the number now?

Kim^J, as an exercises you might try to rewrite that to print_last_string
Kim^J, and have it take arrays of arbitrary size

Well, my goal was to make a function that counts how many elements there are in an array…

Kim^J, which manes that since the array degenerates into a char** you'll have to figure out some way of passing in a length too

that's impossible, since you can't pass arrays to functions, only pointers.

What if I don't know that?

Kim^J: You do

this is why, for example, fgets() requires a size parameter

Chris, you can make a macro for it.

sure

I've found arrays to be pretty useless in C

um, wow, okay.

I'm not that experienced, but I can't recall a time when I actually used an array

string literals are an example of arrays

hmm, yes; well you've got me there
in that case I'll qualify that statement with "expect for string literals"

well, he hasn't, because string literals are not arrays.

oh, hey
yea
they're not
they're pointers to statically allocated memory

no

no?
well I'm confused then; what are they?

"a sequence of zero or more multibyte characters enclosed in double-quotes, as in "xyz". A wide string literal is the same, except prefixed by the letter L."

yes they are arrays

"hello" is of type char[6].

char str[] = "foo"; seems to work

Chris, that is the syntax, scroll down to the Semantics section.

as does "char *str = "foo""
so is it just the case that when you assign an array to a pointer of the same type it just degenerates?

yeah, sorry, my mistake.

ok, so; final verdict: A string literal is an array, and assigning a string literal to a char[] is the natural thing to do; however, assigning it to char* will degenerate the array into a char* (as is normal in C)
did I get anything wrong in that statement?

rutski, the value of an array is a pointer.

you can't assign to a char[], but you can initialise it

Draconx, that doesn't sound right to me; arrays are arrays, and the value of an array is an array.

rutski, there are no array values in C.

Draconx, hmm, you sure?

(1) Peyton Manning; (2) Johnny Unitas; (3) Bert Jones; (4) Jim Harbaugh; (5) Earl Morrall

no, this is why when you do foo(array), you get a pointer

wrong channel

Chris, well that's because arrays can't be passed to functions

no, it's because array values are pointers

let me see what happens when I try to assign an array to another array

rutski, no, it's because you can only pass values to functions.

and C passes by value

ah, ok; I think I'm starting to get it

you can't assign to an array, at all.
but you can initialise it, which also uses the = operator.

not at all

it's not really an operator in that context.

fair point, s/operator/token/ ?

works for me.

Chris, yep, that seems to be right. gcc barfed and gave me "error: invalid initializer"

The lack of array values in C is somewhat of a kludge, but at least it's consistent.

I find it funny that it has struct values

why is that?

well, why does it not have array values?

are you on a linux machine?

don't shout.
because of stupidity.
there is no good reason for not having array values

okay, then I'll say I find it funny that it doesn't have array values instead.
I just find it inconsistent to have struct values but not array values

vorpal, I'm on IRC on XChat running on Linux; yep

you can always do struct foo { char x[96]; }

yes, it is inconsistent.

yes

so what?

oh that's lovely

so you can do some thing you might have wanted to do with an array "value"
like assignment (even though its probably compiled into what you would have done with a pointer)

workarounds are irrelevant to the inconsistency.

this is not a workaround for anything

Chris, ok, I just read over the standard. So I see now that a string literal is definitely an array.
Chris, so correct me here if I'm wrong

man 2 pipe — an example of POSIX api hosting that uses array as argument

yes, I already conceded it was

no.

int pipe(int *fildes); ?

it uses a pointer to a vector of two ints, using array notation to describe it.

OK, but the notation is what i was trying to evince

that's the only part which has anything to do with arrays …

Chris, when you do something like printf("foo") what's happening is that an array gets initialized with the content { 'f', 'o', 'o', '' }, which then gets it's value taken (which results in a char*) and then that value gets passed to printf().

yep

**its
vorpal, if you have int pipe(int filedes[2]) then doing sizeof(filedes) in that function would yield the size of an int*
vorpal, so it really is a pointer, despite the array notation.
that's kind of silly
why did they include that in C?

I think they were in a bit of a rush

someone thought it was a good idea at the time.

I think they were high on crack at the time.

probably Zhivago

much like gets(), though I suspect someone was exceptionally drunk or high when that one was spawned.

I'm still confused about gets()
does it write a NULL, or no?

they could have solved the problem by making an implicit conversion between array and pointer to its first element

we should have a language design awareness campaign

which would allow for array values and current behaviour

Zhivago, hmm, isn't that what happens now?

no

Zhivago, if not, then how would you describe it?

currently evaluating an array produces a pointer to its first element.

gets() writes a null terminator, but you should neve use gets() because it doesn't care about the buffer size.

exactly

which is nothing like having an implicit conversion

ah, ok; I see what you mean

That is implicit conversion
you could define array types which didn't perform the conversion

no, conversion implies that there is an array value to convert from.

s/value/value or object/

fax, the point is that taking the value of an array gets you a pointer to the first element, so no conversion can happen.
fax, conversion can only happen if taking the value of an array gives you an array, which you can then convert to a pointer

you may argue that there is a conversion, because you cannot attempt to use its value as an array type value
since char a[10], b[10]; a = b; is defined as illegal
but I think that argument is essentially backward.

I don't know why, but I really don't miss try{}catch{} style exception handling
will I start to wish I had them in C as my programs get larger?

you will probably write less C as your programs get larger

heh

readme.txt

C is the only language that I really feel comfortable with

try/catch style is more easily understood when you know CPS.

Zhivago, CPS?

all the other ones I've used are too complicated to get my head completely wrapped around

you should probably change that asap

continuation-passing-stype
er style

ah

exceptions just become alternate continuations to the main path.
which have dynamic extent

fax, in favor of what?

only being comfortable with C

it's the dynamic extent which tends to make exceptions dubious.

Zhivago, for error handling you mean?

you can end up writing things in C when you would be better of using somthing else

fax, define "better off"

error handling is essentially irrelevant to this.

Zhivago, I got up late to the talk, trying to catch.

catch what?

Is there a signal that can be sent to a running process that will cause a running application to run any registered destructors (.dtors) before exiting?

Zhivago, the talk.

C has no registered destructors
yes, I got that, but what's the catching about?

Zhivago, what's the matter on Exceptions vs CPS, I'm trying to catch why that came to discussion.

##c++

ah, this talk.
do you know about CPS?

Zhivago, no, that's why I asked you about that.

Actually, gcc does support registering functions to act as destructors at the end of an application.

what's 'EXPORT_SYMBOL' mean in kernel drivers?

hello, in if(a && b) is the order of evaluation unspecified or specified?

ok, in CPS, we never return — instead we pass a function to be called after completing a computation
e.g., (+ 1 2 (lambda (r) (print r halt)))

vooduhal, this is a feature beyond the scope of C. C does not provide this

instead of (print (+ 1 2))

evaluates a, if its true evaluates b, other wise b is short-curcuited

does that make sense?

True.

Zhivago, yes.
Zhivago, but how's that useful? or in exchange of what?

fax, thank you.. so the order of evaluation is specified, doing if(p = malloc(n) && *p = 0); for example is allowed?

= has lower precidence than && so that probably doesn't do what you want
check `man operator` for details

ok, now consider if … (if ( x 10) (print 1) (print 2)) becomes ( x 10 (lambda () (print 1 halt) (lambda () (print 2 halt)))

okay, lets suppose i enclose it in parenthesis, it would work wouldnt it

if takes two continuations, because there are two directions that it can continue in — does this make sense?

yes

where exactly would you put the parentheses?

(p = malloc(n)
) &&

Zhivago, I mean, yes, it makes sense.

you needn't do if(…);, … alone would be fine

you need to check the return value of malloc.

Chris but that's what the && does isnt it

oh, wait, yes
nevermind

okay.. i see now

ok, now consider (read-char stream (lambda (c) (print c halt)) on-eof on-conversion-error)

thanks a lot fax for clearing this

that's fairly unidiomatic, but I suppose valid

we have two variables called on-eof and on-conversion-error which are bound to continuations by something earlier
these are our exceptions — there's nothing fundamentally different between exceptions and any other kind of flow control.
but it's hard to see until you make the flow control uniform.

and you'd still need to check p was not NULL, so it's a little silly.
(when you want to use p after)

its also silly talking to no one

oh yes

Zhivago, so, instead of having a normal flow control, it does have a continuation-style for the error-handling?

I should pay attention to quits

Zhivago, say… call that continuation?

nah, you've missed the point.
the point is that exceptions are the same as ifs
the difference is in where they are specified.
exceptions tend to be set up where the code that uses them can't see.

Zhivago, I'm chewing that…

do you know why all these bind macros are so popular? :p
I am confused people are using them
or maybe it is just fun to write them?

you mean destructuring-bind?

no, well somewhat
I meant really the things build ontop of destructuring-bind and such
to deal with -everything- like multiple values, plists, alist etc etc
I don't see the point

your question is too vague to be answered.

I was just wondering if you had some idea why people would be writing these
I don't think they are useful but I don't know

I don't know — you haven't managed to say what you're asking about.

stuff like this http://akkartik.name/lisp.html#bind
why bother to write defmacro bind?

he wanted an augmented let

I know :p
oh well
I still don't see the appeal

but that looks kind of ugly, imho.

agreed

3C3D
ops.

NigelS sorry brother was afk, thanks for your explanation!!
fax thanks!

muffins + beer = very nice

the abuse of mathematical notation appears to be a side-effect of your drug habit

how can i remove the from a string?

Why do you want to do that

that's like a Zen Koan. R U sure you want to do that?

i found now, thanks!

good morning

hey Cin

muffins and beer? blech
pizza and beer

I'd kill a small child for pizza right now

kill a small child _in order to make_ pizza?

safeway has a great thin crust for cheap
just toss in the oven for 20 minutes

Small kittens are easier to knead.

haha, flippo, hola

vorpal, hola. Time for me to go to bed. How about you?

i'm talking myself into pizza

vorpal, that's evil talk. Stop now.

;-)

that's dangerous thinkin', timmy

if you're ever in tucson, look me up, for one, but also check out zachary's pizza
best deep dish for hundreds of miles
which is not saying much here in the desert, but it really is good!

vorpal, I'm partial to the thin well worked dough variety

yeah, ilike thin sourdough crusts, too

vorpal, In Denver try Famous Pizza on Broadway.

*nod*

It's a rundown place run by Italians. They last remodelled in 1973, I think.
Peeling paint, grimy floor, but a pizza oven like an alter.
[altar]

hehe
*angelic choir*

Damn, this is evil talk.
How am I supposed to sleep now?
Buonasera, arrivederci.

i know. i'm expecting to break down soon. fortunately, i think i will be too tired to actually get in my car adn drive anywhere

A domani, ciao!

now if i was at my brother's, i think we would have enough ingredients to make a pizza from scratch
ciao, flippo

well if it isn't harpal

any idea on why if(strcasestr(stream,pal)) works but strcat(msg,pal); which is just below, doesnt?

vorpal's evil nemesis

I'm sure both functions perform as documented

there's no way we can understand the behaviour of those two sequence points without context provided by either (1) you or (2) the rest of your code

harbl?

r u soaking it in my bath?

a cat is fine too

hi everyone

would you be so kind to check http://pastebin.com/d3e7bf74e

there's many things wrong with it.

:/
at least everything seems to be working so far, except the strcat(msg,pal);
if i replace the pal with "anything else", i see it works
so i was wondering why

Hi, how do I connect to SSH on a remote server that is running on a different port (not 22)? How do I specify the port in the command line?
nevermind, got it.

what supplicant you can use to do wireless connection?
can iwconfig be used to do the association to an access point?

yeah
just RTFM

looks like iwconfig is a driver configurator. what command do you issue to assoicate?

i think you are better off asking google than OmiKrOn, xonicx, for google will both know more and be more helpful

Hi to all!
Is there a way to autoset rights on a particular folder ?
I mean, when a file is copied there, to have it with, say, 777 ?

hi, there seem to be a problem with the xserver that is the mouse to pause ever few seconds (asus 7300gs card). any ideas?
hi, there seem to be a problem with the xserver that is causing the mouse to pause every few seconds (asus 7300gs card). any ideas?

hello frnds
i tried to install linux froma dvd iso image which is on a usb hdd
how do write a .img file using dd to that usb hdd ?
plz help

you are aware that ufs is usually not a good choice for a filesystem on a harddisk?

dd if=dvd.img of=/dev/device_name

not using ufs

this cmd will write the file ?

in what format is your dvd image, then?

iso

and what is it an upload your images online of ?

fc7

with what command did you make it ?

downloded, its a dvd iso image

of what ?

trying to install from that iso file directly without burning it
fc7

iso is an even worse format for a partition on a harddisk ^^

well

get some virtuallization stuff and run your image inside of that.

is there a better way than who , to tell what users are currently logged in?

: i run the cmd, all the existing file gone

is it possibe to recover
??

I prefer w to who

you probably want to dd a boot image, boot, and select the install method
then select the iso on HD
or somesuch

yea i know

which is why I asked you twice what you were dd'ing

but i mean afer running the dd cmd all the existing file on that usb hdd gone

of course it is

k
is it possible to recover
?

if you are dd'ing the actuall install iso, that is not the way to do it

Noborusan, i just dd'ing diskboot.img
dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sda1

what other files would you want on there ?
that is what you need to boot
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-installing-from-harddrive.html
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-preparing-media.html
a href="http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-preparing-media.html"http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-preparing-media.html/a

what if i also copy the actual iso file there, and while choosing i chose from that usb hdd
it it possible

-m state –state NEW -s 1.2.3.4 -m tcp -p tcp –dport 22 -j ACCEPT
anythign wrong with that kind of rule for iptables?

drop the -m tcp
there's no point in specifying twice that it should only match tcp packets

thats true

and you haven't specified an action or chain

thats earlier in, i was primarily concerned specifying a source wasnt going to cause an issue

-m state –state NEW is fine, though I personally use -m conntrack –ctstate NEW instead

any particular reason why?

specifying a source depends on the chain
usually it's ok
cstate allows iptables access to more info than state

ah

sorry, ctstate

i've just lost my lilo, how do I reinstall lilo from a live cd?

what distro?

is there any step by step guide for installing fc from a dvd iso file from hdd ??
bis there any step by step guide for installing fc from a dvd iso file from hdd ??/b

boot the livecd, chroot to the HD installation and run /sbin/lilo

i've done that and it said lilo.conf didn't exist, so i just copied my old one from my partition but it complains about that
i'm just booting up knoppix now
my pc just boots into windows, i have windows on the 1st partition, slackware on the 2nd & 3rd, and pclinux on a logical (sda5)

so you have 3 partitions that could potentially contain the desired lilo.conf

yes
i've tried two of them so far

3rd time's a charm?

it keeps saying 'Trying to map files from unnamed device 0×000f (NFS/RAID mirror down ?)
what's that mean???

hi, anyone knows an alternative opensource free or commercial app to M$ project ?

taskjuggler and kplato are two that were mentioned last time somebody asked

thanks sekhmet

np

how do you make a 'beep' sound via terminal?

try printf("\a")

what if that doesn't work
i've tried various forms of that… and printf("\a") gives unexpected token error

how about echo -e "\a"

echo -e "\a" doesn't produce any sound- nor error message
hmm, i get sound if i send junk to /dev/dsp
anyway
i give up

my new kubuntu install fails to see my realtec 8139 card, it shows in lspci, I did sudo modeprobe 8139too, still no joy…… any ideas?

try 8139cp

ok then what?

then what what? see if that driver sees your card

user mockbuild does not exist - using root and it doesnt install the rpm what do i need to do?
nevermind I got it

how to enable aspell to check spelling in real time in texmaker?

i have a url that i want mplayer on the command line to load but it's full of & = ? type of characters… how can I escape those characters ?

you can use: mplayer 'http://somecrazyurl'

it's kind of aggravating.. the mplayer plugin loads it fine in firefox.. but if i try to do it on the commandline it just wont play
grrr

How do I change my screen res in gnome, if it's too low and the screen res tool won't allow me to go higher?
whats the debian version of fedora's system-config-display?

you could use xrandr perhaps; failing that, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

ok…I know this is called Linuxhelp but I'm actually using Nexenta and the other irc rooms haven't replied. anyone know how to do it? I've done xrandr -d 0 -s 0/800×600 but the screen doesn't change. Any ideas?

hm.
tried -d :0
and, what index does 800×600 turn up at? for example, here it turns up at index 1
err, 2
xrandr -d :0 -s 2

I will try that. thanks

I attached an external sata disk through usb2, it shows up as /dev/sdb, but when trying to fdisk /dev/sdb it says "unable to read /dev/sdb". How can I fix this?
ah damn
connected the wrong cable, it *did* show up as /dev/sdb, though there was only a controller connected, no hard drive…

Hello everyone. I've got a split up RAR file that I would like to put back together. I know that the "cat" command can do this, but I don't know to do it right.

target

make sure target doesn't exist first

Okay then.

I have a string describing a datetime with 'date +"%F %R:%S"' , if I want to add lets say 1 hour and 2 minutes and 3 secunds to this string is there a way to use date to set a temporary date, described by the string and then use 'date –date="+1 hour +2 min +3 sec"' ??
Or is there another way to get the new datetime value?
Hmm… I know one possible way to solve it, but that aint a nice solution though :/

Hi. Anyone up on kernel futures around? I'm wondering where i can read something on the latest direction of filesystems.

hello
'm having a networking issue on a opensuse 10.2 installation (clean install), The nic has a link but isn't getting dhcp address, and static ip set doesn't work either. Not a firewall issue or defective nic (tried 3) and sniffing detects no dhcp discover or arp broadcasts coming from the
system

what does mii-tool show?

make sure you pluged the cable into the right nic

if you try to ping from another machine you surely must see the arp/rarp traffic running tcpdump on the NIC

anyone happen to know of an open source backup solution comparible to yosemite?

Hi. Im stuck at the cURL installation. can someone give me a hint?

are you using your (unmentioned) distro's package manager?

i tried it with apt-get and solo using debian 4.0
i can $curl http://www.netscape.com/ in the CLI with no errors
but I cant see cURL with info.php

maybe this might help: http://www.phpbuilder.com/manual/en/install.unix.debian.php You might need to install php4-curl

i've lost my lilo on my hard drive, is there a way to boot into my old linux partitions using a secure linux web hosting live cd?

yup, most live cds have a boot loader prompt that let you specify a kernel… well, you can also specify it to boot from your hard drive if you want. I think typically it's something like: boot kernelname root=/dev/hda1
but consult the documentation for whatever boot loader your live cd is using
then once you're in your old system, you can reinstall lilo.

ok thanks, ill try that

you're welcome, good luck.

i have many live cd's here, ubuntu, pclinuxos, backtrack, which is the best to use?

I'm sure it all depends on which one is best host suited to your taste and tasks you want to accomplish . I think ubuntu is fine for a desktop, haven't used any of the others listed.

i mean for using the boot loader, which of those is easy
i think it's working
yes i fixed it

looking for a a good linux distro that's wifi friendly
ubuntu doesnt seem to like me
network manager likes to randomly disable networking until I have to reboot
7.04 anyway
6.06 worked fine

opensuse

is there a difference between an initrd and initramfs? if so, what is it?

there is and it is well documented

where can i find this documentation?

basically the thing is: initrd will waste some certain ammount of ram, no matter if you still need it or not, while a ramfs will only use the memory the data actually uses

how can one determine whether they're using an initrd or initramfs?

if you use it for booting your linux, you would usually delete all files in it just before chrooting to the real root

(in conjunction with booting their kernel)

a premade initrd or ramfs?

i'm not sure; that's what i'm trying to figure out. i guess i should ask my real question though =P

real questions are usually more helpful

i like to answer fake questions to warm up first

hahha
i'm installing suspend2 (www.tuxonice.net), and the instructions say this:
If you are using an initrd, you MUST edit the linuxrc script to attempt to resume before filesystems are mounted. Do this by inserting the line:

/sys/power/suspend2/do_resume

somewhere after mount /proc but before mounting filesystems in your linuxrc script.
and then the instructions say to do something else if you're using an initramfs

are you using an initrd or initramfs?

i don't know. how can i determine that?
wait a sec. i'm pretty sure i'm using an initial ramdisk, as /initrd.img exists

looking at your bootmanager config and/or your kernel config should help
initrds should be mentioned in your bootmanager config

"bootmanager" being lilo or grub?

yep
initramfs might be mentioned there as well, but might also be built into your kernel image

aha! i have "initrd=" lines in lilo.conf
initrd=/initrd.img

i vaguely remember initrds being gzipped cpio archives.

yes, they are

if you want more infos on initrds and initramfs, look around on the busybox, uclibc pages and in your kernel documentation

so, how does one execute a specific command before between /proc/ and the rest of the filesystems being mounted?

first you need that linuxrc script
then you open it in a text editor…

the instructions refer to "the linuxrc" script. i interpret that as the script already being inside the initrd. is that correct?

yep

thanks

welcome

will i have to edit my initrd to make this change every time i recompile my kernel?

depends on whether your initrd gets remastered when recompiling your kernel
but usually that is not the case.

i recompiled my kernel about an hour ago, and the timestamp on the file that /initrd.img links to corresponds to that kernel recompile..

then try to find the directory or script that generates your initrd