Hey allIm working at learning Servlets and was kinda curious about the webxml file used

i/j #netbeans
oops

eclipse

http://www.pastebin.ca/567552
Exception: com.mysql.jdbc.Driver

r0bby, Netbeans works for me ..you should check it out 5.5 is a preety neat version

nahhh

Egonis, did you completely ignore me?

Egonis, pastebin an entire transcript of what you're doing

after the incident with IDEA, i'm not _TOUCHING_ another IDE.

what incident?

IDEA incident?

r0bby_, how about seeing another IDE
not touching it

I did something, managed to delete my entire project
and I had alot of code ;(

backup++

oooo

0.o

I had all the code working too!
it parsed the file and everything

you figured out that issue with the 2nd and 2nd to last lines?

Hahahaha

how the hell do you manage to delete your project
sounds like PEBKAC

i love that acronym

no idea
comma after the last value and white-space at the end
(of the file)

hehe

but, all the values inside a nice HashMap

screw backups, just have everything stored in some sort of version control
and I suppose you can back up that repository

i've just been reading an into to java, and i'm not entirely clear on what they call package access, they say that it means that a class with package access is only visible to other classes in the same package...but i don't quite know what that means

~package

Fanook, package is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/interpack/packages.html and some example http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?254

~access modifiers

[krustofski], access modifiers is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html

packages are what java hosting uses to organize your classes

Sulis, a package is a namespace
that groups classes together
much like a class is a namespace that groups methods and fields together

I'm going to set it up

r0bby, cpan install SVK
:p

svn

r0bby, there's several reasons why I don't like using svn directly...

why?

1, .svn folders are a bane
2, merge tracking is suckass on vanilla svn
etc.

ahh, i understand now, thanks

pffft, glassfish' lifecycles still bite

evening

http://www.pastebin.ca/567583 -- full description of issues and command output

[TechGuy]: it's sad how many things have to be done through the command line with glassfish
I almost care

~tell Egonis about classpath

Egonis, The class path tells Java or the compiler in which jar files and folders to look for classes. Use the -cp/-classpath run-time options to specify the class path. Also see http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/tooldocs/solaris/classpath.html and http://mindprod.com/jgloss/classpath.html#ANACHRONISM

True.

Egonis, read more, type less

I am not yet fully impressed with GF's admin system. It's like the admin control panel is still half-baked, compared to BEA WL for instance
And GF *still* doesn't have a Windows service installer or scripts

[TechGuy]: yeah
hrm... glassfish doesn't, but sjsas9 does

Because GFv1 is a release.
insert random "it's still beta" references here

but the admin console is quite good for about 80% of the tasks you'd actually perform

Yeah. It's okay.

I wish it was nicer for deployers though
I like how WAS' console allows you to resolve JNDI host refs at deploy time through the console

I like how WAS's (or hell even JBoss's) console actually tells you what the damn JNDI object is, rather than saying it's a Reference

heh
well... yeah
but GF *is* correct, after all........

WAS' console lets you do that?
you mean WLS?

no, websphere

Yeah... well...

[TechGuy]: just happens to be 100% useless in that case

jottinger, oh, you mean "fill in the blanks"? I didn't find that so nice...
I mean, yeah, at least it lets you fill in the blanks
it'd be nicer if there were a way to actually browse jndi to find what you're looking for
(assuming that it's a pre-existing resource)

I wish that the refs would at least call the games in the NBA finals
they
they've done a horrible, horrible job -- even considering their goal is just to let 'em play
"Oh, that's just a piddling over-the-back call... let's skip it"
and "Reach-in? Not on our watch!"
And "Hey, there's only blood on the floor... no bone, no foul!"
and they're not being really good about actually being fair with the calls
yeah, would be nice
run through deployment, instantiate the JNDI hosting refs, then allow resolution with the configuration file data as defaults...
data as defaults...

are the cavs blowing it again?

they're up 10-5
mike brown FINALLY left larry hughes out of the starting lineup

hmm, they'll fix that

"duh"

-- cleveland area non-sports type

ooo, he didn't play in game 3 either
but as soon as I saw that last non-call in the fourth, I knew the cavs had lost
z does a good job rebounding...
nice shot, 12-8
heh
"Gregg popovich wants a timeout, so he calls the VERY TIMEOUT THAT NBA RULES FORCE HIM TO"
hahaha
the commentators are so full of it
and they're ex-coaches, so they HAVE to know

you could give espn's gamecast a run for its money

[krustofski]: woo
except they'd fire me for being honest

clearcase stupid stupid

lebrons got one hell of a honker

[krustofski]: and a hell of a player, too
he's gotten shafted this series

not gonna help tonight when the sweeps over

[krustofski]: true dat

parker is da man!

yeah, the spurs have the cavs outclassed
almost every phase of the game... best player on the spurs is better than the best hosting player on the cavs, better team d, better team O, better head coach....
better three shooters, better paint players...
the list is endless

I love your screenshot paster.

next year or two, maybe the cavs will have it... but not now

At least they made it for the first time in franchise history, so they're still working on it
holy

the cavs are better at offensive rebounding...

you see little parker take that?

now that was a transition breakaway

yeah
he's touch
I'm pretty sure his french accent is fake

q@#$@#@#$#@
wait... that was 2???

yeah
spurs are grinding them apart as usual

what up, yo?

r0bby, heh, no need to kissass... paste anything interesting?

GOOD SEQUENCE!
Got the foul
but blew the FT!

gotta blame the net

Ibet they called that on James

im trying to intiate two arrays in Polygon() and iv tried this Polygon(4, [123], [987]). Polygon is set up as this Polygon(int num, int x[], int y[])
Polygon[4, [123], [987]) does not work and im unsure y

because that's not how you define arrays
new int[]{123}

you've gotten that from a different programming language haven't you? i know that would work in python

ginobilis got butter fingers

krust has peanut butter
extra crunchy

jack = new Polygon(4, int[]{0123}, int[]{987});
that doesnt work

oh brother...

sorry

~tell doctorwhite about arrays

doctorwhite, arrays is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/arrays.html

Re-read Fanook's line *carefully*

note the location of the colon!

where it always was!

thankfully!

I have a semicolon. Maybe that's why I'm so cramped

then my question is how do i mix the arrays with an int parameter?
all on one line
i declared them already, im just intiating them in main

doctorwhite, first of all, you need to tell us what you're trying to get
doctorwhite, then describe to us what you're doing and how it's not working in relation to your requirement

ok i created a new object jack from the class Polygon. Polygon has three constructors.

how you're going about getting help is completely wrong

I just hate you all

jottinger, I just hate that you're getting paid to hang out with eidolon on irc ;-)

paid? to irc? huh?

i am suppose to intiate x-y values in main by using the Polygon constructor Polygon(int num, int x[], int y[])

Ha! Ha! Ha!

doctorwhite, ok, now what are you trying and what is not working

thats the quite the puzzler.. i dont know if java can handle it

hmm
is there an initialization list for a constructor?
similar to that of which c++ has

hi, is there a way to have like file output stream.. then output some text... then like go to the beginning of the output and and prepend some text?
is there an easy way to do that?

no
just initialize the variables in the constructor

like ... what? like?

haha, i thought franco was OJ

heh
wtf happened with the game clock?

i want more control over how i output text to a file.. i want to output text to the beginning of a file and to the end

Anyone know any tutorials which deal with using rsync in Java?

in what way?

Liek syncing all your files from a certain directory to what the server has.

so does anyone know how i can just add text to the beginning of a file

I can't think of why there'd be a tutorial for using it in java

tell gcbdm about io

gcbdm, io is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/io

use it the same way as not in java

maybe with RandomAccessFile

or are you wanting to implement rsync?

ok ty

I just want to use thr rsync command to sync what I have with the server.

anyonw know any "tutorials" to learn java if you already know C++, oop, and algorithms (you just don't know java)...

~rbi

[krustofski], rbi is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reallybigindex.html

the java tutorial is great

just read up on Runtime
tell Pegazus about tij
~tell Pegazus about tij

Pegazus, tij is Thinking in Java by Bruce Eckel, see http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/ for the 3rd edition (free download, published in 2002) or see http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ4 for the current edition which covers Java 5 features.

ok, thx

if you just need the syntax, rbi will give you that

what is rbi?

look up about 10 lines

k
any page with tells the difference between c++ and java by chance?

i'm sure there are some on google

theres a wiki host on it, its quite neat

but a complete one

c++ sucks, java servlet hosting rocks, what more do you need to know?

Hey all...I'm working at learning Servlets, and was kinda curious about the web.xml file used - specifically about the url-pattern. I'm trying a very simple site, and want everything / wise to go go the servlet, but say the /static directory, which I'd like to well...host the CSS and all that. I"m using the Wicket framework to do all this, is this the right thing to do, or is there something different I should be doing for this?

covering all features (including advanced one)

karstensrage, That's a loaded statement.

i would be tempted to ask why... but forget it...

im being sarcastic

k...

java is very rich with API support for almost everything you could imagine
c++ you have to go searching far and wide and it may not even be there
c++ templates are nice and compiled in
java 5 has generics which semi-accomplish the same thing but are compile time only then thrown away

mostly thrown away

c++, IMHO, is syntactically ugly
java, IMHO, is very nice looking

I'm not sure how IO can help me sync to a server.

i thought java resembled c++ code very closely indeed

C++ has multiple inheritance which is enough rope to hang yourself with

well, you're reading and writing files so ...

java has only single inheritance

for classes

i meant subtle difference... the big ones i know them...

isn't c++ faster because it compiles to machine code whereas java is an intermediate language that requires interpreting?

ehhh programming languages are programming languages

there are numerous documents that outline differences but I doubt any of them outline them all.
no

a language isn't faster than another language... An implementation of certain language may be faster than another implementation of some or another language...

not necessarily, java runtime is very heavy weight and goes right to OS level very fast

one that is quite complete?

i don't know of one.

but doesn't c++ go right to the processor?

yes. c++ is typically compiled to native code.

there are things that require really exact and hand made memory managment... you can't acomplish some of those in java...

for certain things one may be faster than the other
sure but how often do you require exact and hand made management?

i've never done it...

ok then

in fact i've never handed memory by hand in c++
but anyway.... it's possible to do it...

how can you not handle memory by hand in c++
...

using the appropiated things...

That is ...

like smart ptrs, and containers...

just understand the rules!
with new comes delete

smart pointers suck

with malloc comes free

hi all. i interviewed for a java/j2ee job the other day at a major bank and they didn't even give me a technical interview ... does that say anything about the company or department?

i can have garbage collector in c++ if i want...

chrisjw, it becomes much more complicated when you're using 3rd party libraries

Exact memory addresses with pointer manipulation (e.g. CFoo* foo = new (0x234242)CFoo()

Pegazus, all based on reference counting, which suckass

have a look at http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html and google "java vs c++"

i almost never use new or delete in my c++ programs...

[TechGuy], yeah, you have fun with that ;-)

do you use your own allocators?

sometimes...

You seem to be asking about language differences that are pointless to your usage.

Sorry to interrupt your debate-- but what's the function[s] required to remove the default keyboard handling of a JScrollPane? Like, when the user presses the arrow button, I don't want the scrollpane to move.

Java is now nearly equal to (or faster than) C++ on low-level and numeric benchmarks? O_o...

java doesn't have functions

methods!

i was just answering to some things someone said...

look in the javadocs for the _METHOD_

ScottishPig, InputMap and ActionMap
ScottishPig, remove the default keybindings from there

pfn, Thanks.
r0bby, Sorry for insulting you with procedural-speak.

sorry for attacking you

pr3d4t0r?

Yo'.

it's member function
=P

hey pr3d4t0r can I PM ya?

how does java compare to the .NET framework?

Sure.

it seems very similar

They aren't.
.Net is Windows-only.

they both use JIT

hmm, Mono?

Mono is not .Net.

Well.. .NET has the potential to be operating system dependent
mono is .NET

No, it's not.

Mono is a compatible .NET clone

I know what it is.

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
it says it there

And no, it's not .Net.
Just like gcj is not Java.

I said .net clone

pr3d4t0r knows his shit
don't argue

ugh, I hate how java caches dns lookups forever

hmm

is that ever going to be fixed...

There is a major difference between implementing a language, and truly calling yourself that language

.NET isn't actually a language, but ok

.NET is a framework

framework or runtime or something

s/language/platform/

.Net is a framework designed by Microsoft to run on

yeah, that, platform

Windows.

mono claims to work well on the platforms that it's implemented on....

Mono is a clone not endorsed, licensed, or otherwise related to .Net beyond attempting compatibility with it.

running on the Common Language Runtime

Yeah, but it isn't .Net.

I tested a few .NET only programs on Mono and they worked
about as working as wine

And if Microsoft wants to break it, they will.

no one is calling it .Net anymore

they aren't?

pr3d4t0r, of course, there's always that problem, but .net is also an ecma standard...

I mean here and now

OKi.

ok so other than compatibility.. what is the advantages of java over .NET

pr3d4t0r, ms also tried to screw up java by breaking it...
chrisjw, java is ported to more platforms

*sigh*. The *CLI* is an ECMA standard

the CLI?

anything other than compatibility

Common Language Infrastructure

Common Language Interfac.

common language interface

Er, Infrastructure.

ok, in that case, it sounds utterly worthless

That's a tiny part of .NEt.

nothing else about .net is standardized?

C#
The Base Class Libraries (part of the CLI)
Otherwise, it's an MS marketspin
Just like MSIL is really CIL

so is a .NET application slower than a java application?

does .Net have anything like the JVM?

Does .NET have a smaller set of libraries?

That's the CLR

#dotnet can tell you all about it.

We don't know, or care, really, beyond the standard marketroid speak.

.NET uses some kind of pre-startup-JIT, IIRC, I dunno what Java does

Debatable. The CLR's JITer is less advanced. But most Windows .Net is pre-compiled to native code with NGen

You're welcome
Anyway.

hmm
if i am doing something such as "chello"

[TechGuy]: as if

is there any way I can do something like
r"chello"

wtf is it resolving 'lnxec395' to 127.0.0.2, while dns says 9.30.155.251

and have it ignore the escape sequences?
similar to python

[TechGuy]: maybe a drunken charles barkley could keep up ;p

18 PDT] 00000031 BuildDispatch E Unable to connect to host lnxec395, error=Connection refused to host: 127.0.0.2; nested
b18 PDT] 00000031 BuildDispatch E Unable to connect to host lnxec395, error=Connection refused to host: 127.0.0.2; nested/b
127.0.0.2??? wtf

local VPN tunnel
?

no
hmm, I wonder if nscd has anything to do with it

is it possible to iterate through a collection using some kind of for each loop?

collection) { ... }

~tell chrisjw about foreach

fooList) { foo.setBar(baz); } " more at http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/foreach.html

ok, it wasn't nscd... wtf is going on

Evening all.
Doncha just hate it when you need to hack and, for whatever reason, you're restless and want to do anything but?

usually that's me at 2:30am

hiya puff

re all.

puff whats worse is waking up at 5am and going straight to the computer and pulling 5 hours
upuff whats worse is waking up at 5am and going straight to the computer and pulling 5 hours/u

idiot..I was trying to read a HashMap w/o reading the actual file into it

what's a HashMap?

it's a piece of paper that tells you where you left your stash

The piece of paper is *made from* your stashj

oh man this is good

If anyone is familiar with Wicket, I'm really having some issues here. I'm trying to include a stylesheet, and I've read at least 5-6 different articles and wiki stuff trying to get it. As stated, I put site.css into the same area as my java files, and added this line: add(new StyleSheetReference("sitecss", getClass(), "site.css")); and modified the front.html to handle it. The problem is that the browser won't include the .css file,
and it gives me the link doing this, of which doesn't work - it just executes the servlet anyways...so the browser won't ever see the css file. Any suggestions on why this is happening? My guess is the web.xml, but I also googled information on that, and others with the css problem fixed their problem and still had a similar web.xml as me.

wtf?

hmm?

look at HeaderContributor

I'll relook that information up, unfortunately I read parts of that already and may have tried it - but will do so again and check.

pr3d4t0r

http://wicketframework.org/apidocs/wicket/behavior/HeaderContributor.html
look at forCss()

pr3d4t0r because youre lazy... heres a round robin for the site: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=2410 .. heres it working: http://beerwench.net/rr.php ... and here are the images its using: http://beerwench.net/logos.html

Looking at the following swing example is it good practice to use invokeLater?
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/examples/start/HelloWorldSwingProject/src/start//HelloWorldSwing.java
I've usually just called my GUI classes from main
but not sure if this is a good method or not

updates to the GUI, and ONLY updates to the GUI, should be done on the event dispatch thread.

Yeah, been to those api docs already, sometimes helpful, largely speaking with my knowledge of this framework it's not that helpful. Spending more time reading wiki docs, but still googling for that again, trying to find where I last read about it.

although if no components are realized yet it doesn't really matter.

that's the method you should use
actually that's not true. you should always do that stuff on the EDT
there are issues, e.g., on solaris that can lock things up.

really? hmph. well, screw solaris! i always use the EDT anyway, but i did not realize that could be a problem
really? hmph. well, screw solaris! i always use the EDT anyway, but i did not realize that could be a problem

cay horstmann just blogged about it.

nmx so is that a good example or no?
should I dispatch my UI's like that?

yes. it is correct.
never ever work with swing outside of the EDT.

weird I didnt learn it that way in school
man college sucks

you were taught wrong

what are the benefits of dispatching the UI from EDT?

read this: http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/threads/threads1.html
it's not a benefit. it's a requirement.

~edt

Well, none of these options are working. The link given from the link css source location file, which is proving to be the same regardless of whatever option I use, is not working - it gives me a link, if I throw that into the address bar it will not work - it just launches the servlet like normal.

yes. it will go through the wicket servlet.

At the moment, static content won't load either is my guess, images and pictures and so on.
I just tried this idea here just a min ago in hopes it'd work: http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/adding-javascript-or-css-using-a-resource.html

do you know a page on which I could play some video presentations of this or that technology in Java????

java.net has a few, rife has a few

rife?

rifers.org
tss has a few videos from eugene

From the URL given the the HTML, I should be able to throw that in the location bar and get the CSS - the browser of course needs this, but when I do that - it launches the servlet itself. My url pattern is just url-pattern//url-pattern, the rest is pretty much from the quickstart itself.

oh, thank you

Do most java developers know swing?

probably not

i mean like is it something that every java dev should probably learn
I like swing but its so complex
well not complex but large

is there a way to setup a runtime type constant ?

a what?

a unchangeable variable at run time

swing has a lot of 'stuff' but it basically all works the same way.

i have done very little swing programming and i've been using java for almost 11 years now.

i've done a ton of swing programming personally but it just depends on what you're doing

swing is a lot nicer than the alternative
although its still ugly
any ideas on a runtime constant ?

a final variable?

sounds that way

yes but thats a compile time constant final static string
i need to set the constant after my program start

are you just throwing words together now?
i didn't say 'compile' 'time' 'constant' 'static' or 'string'

public static final String MYSTRING = "TEST";
we all know what that is right?

:: yawn ::

read what i said again.

Ah, my article about the iPhone for TSS is coming along great.

http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=2411 add the round robin for the images

yay! more non SS stuff on TSS

your right i got retarded there for a second and started seeing things

No.
I'd do it if you took it seriously.

im confused

if its final i can assign it once... but if its static I can not?
static final.

are you going to get an iPhone?

nmx in this example I see awt eventQueue http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/examples/learn/CelsiusConverterProject/src/learn/CelsiusConverterGUI.java

No.
It's a bad deal.

should I use the awk or swing invoker?

the awk?

and it's only available for GSM/EDGE

That's wonderful.

err awt

no, you can still assign it once. either when you declare it, or in a static initializer block

GSM is where it's at, baby!

CDMA is growing. Only Europe rejects CDMA.

static initializer block... hmm

CDMA is projected to overtake GSM in China and India

swing is based off of awt. use swing.

CDMA phones generally use SIM cards outside of North America, too

hi. i am using ubuntu feisty with locale en_US-UTF-8, and working with netbeans, now trying to internationalize a project into Chinese, but cannot get it display correctly. it should be problema of encoding of the properties file, but tried to encoding it into UTF-8, but no lucky?? somebody give me a tips please??

so the handsets are migratable between CDMA networks in Asia, etc.

I'm a eurocentric kinda chap.

also, not every awt class was refactored into the swing packages. only the ones that needed to be
use a CharsetEncoder

how do you get a static initializer block in main....?

http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/index.asp
Europe is a complete hold-out
Except for Ireland, Scotland and Portugal

I'll get an iphone and report the good and ugly

~tell KWhat about google java static initializer block

KWhat, http://www.google.com/search?q=java+static+initializer+block

Europe, Mexico, and the US are where I'm interested on having phone service.

not totally convinced the good will out weigh the bad

And all those are GSM.

I basically wanted to take a cli arg and set its value to a constant

waz:

i think Europe should get CDMA

You'll like my article tomorrow.

cool

CDMA is way fucking faster than GSM..

If and when

GSM/Edge Maxes out at 1mbps
CDMA can exceed 7mbps

If my phone gets faster I'll sound like Minnie Mouse.

then you're SOL. use a read-only field instead.

I just want to *talk*.
If I want speed I go WiFi.

not to mention that GSM's single-channel capacity is like 25 conversations, and has shit handoff

pr3d4t0r apparently never leaves civilization

CDMA has like, hundreds of conversations per single-channel

try #cellphones for all this

GSM--
heh

And I know as a fact that the fucking carriers (in the US) cap the speed so they don't have to beef their infrastructure up.
No. What do you think, that I live in Indiana or sumethin'?
uNo. What do you think, that I live in Indiana or sumethin'?/u

Nah. He thinks you live in Ohio

Fanook, thx... loooking at it now

plenty of coverage here but I get the chance frequently to do things like hang out at a lake but only if I can do some work
and there's no wifi or high speed
but my phone saves me

telus here doesn't cap. :P

I live here.

http://www.mvflex.org/mikes/EVDO-Wirelesstest.jpg

And again, I don't care. When I'm there it's never for more than a few days.

sure. if i went to Europe a lot. i couldn't have a CDMA phone
and actually, that might be the case soon. which will be very annoying

you think it would be a bad idea to use System.setProperty? What I would like to take at runtime is a path to some config files so the bin can run in /usr/bin or somewhere and config could be in ~/config or /etc/config

cbrock: please take this somewhere else.

we're done
my phone is J2ME-based.
:P

J2ME is another joke, and also thanks to the US carriers.
And in small measure, thanks to the handset manufacturers.

not if you have a Blackberry. which you hate.
the Blackberry OS is 100% j2ME

Crackberry?
The BES system is an abomination of code

:: shrug ::
J2ME is still a joke.

I have never seen such a shitty server system that doesn't work for inexplicable reasons

tis over, ginobili just sealed it

you're in san fran right?

Right.

Left

openmoko, baby.

:P
hey, i'll finally get to go to JavaOne on somone elses dime next year (so I'll go)
:P

Nice.
OKi, dinner fixin' time.

that's the only way to go to J1
just not worth the money

yep
well, i basically HAVE to go now. so it's part of the job.
cheeser... heh

Fanook, i had to use native2ascii tool to covert the properties file

Anybody is there, for generating Report which tool is best for java

~tell E-nnovative about jasper

E-nnovative, I have no idea what jasper is.

grr
No factoid for Jasper?

jasperreports

nope. Not in there either

[TechGuy], Jasper is free and opensource?

depending on your definitions, yes

[TechGuy], where can i download?

Jasper is the tomcat JSP compiler...

and what a marvelous JSP compiler it is!

~tell E-nnovative about google jasper reports

E-nnovative, http://www.google.com/search?q=jasper+reports

~Jasper

jasper reports != jasper fwiw

E-nnovative, I have no idea what Jasper is.

~jasperreports

cheeser, I have no idea what jasperreports is.

you suck

A tool is only as good as its user. Tool.

Bite me
See, now the bot sounds a bit British
"I bit down on me own leg!"

He, he, he...
ignore++

question, why is it when i import ava.awt.Point .. and i create a new point i can set and get the x and y variables in the object with just pointObj.x
how did they do that? :s did they just make that variable public or something?

Because pointObj is a POJO with public object references.
The object is used as a "record".

i thought you always had to do .. .getX() and .setX() type things :s isnt making the variable thing public like um .. not good or something .. lol

Objects like these tend to be unambiguous too, so exposing the internals carries no harm, and they tend to not have any methods.

oh okay ty very much, i didnt know you could do that .. that makes things so much easier .. ive always been doing set() and get() crap when i could just have it as a public variable
lol this way is a lot nicer ...

DO NOT JUST HAVE PUBLIC VARIABLES.

nop? :s

That's for very specialized cases, as I said.
If you have a non-trivial object, accessors are the way to go.

okay so if i had a class that had an int i would be accessing a lot you say that pancakes.totalVal wouldnt be a good way to edit / get the variable?
i mean if it would make sense to have a variable public would that be okay? i mean i never had any of my variables public before .. im jusst wondering if there's any case where i could, you know?

Whether it's an int or a window or a jiraffe makes no difference.

int total = panckakes.getTotal();

What makes a difference is the semantics of the object.

~encapsulation

Fanook, encapsulation is well-defined in a language-neutral paper at: http://www.tattvum.com/Articles/2002/2002-03/2002-03-24/Ramu-SE-20001228-OOP=E+P.html

The only reason why Point and Dimension are *sort of* OKi doing that is because there is no ambiguity in defining them as records with exposed public members.

ALWAYS encapsulate as much as possible
unless you have an explicit reason to not do it, always do it

x is an unambiguous attribute that only has *one* use and it's not likely to change because of the implementation of Point or Dimension.

only exception is constants

Go learn some OOP basics

~tell koshe about oo

koshe, The term "object-oriented" has different meaning to different people; in a Java context it refers to a combination of polymorphism, interface inheritance, and behavioral inheritance. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/concepts/ for more info. In general, saying things like "good object-oriented design" doesn't really mean anything and is not conducive to constructive conversation.

read that

Then you'll understand why, although this breaks encapsulation, it's sort of OKi as an exception to the rule.
In general it IS NOT OK. It's just NOT SO BAD in this case.

when you make a variable public anyclass that you create the object the variable is pretty much global in the entire class in all methods?

Uh... yes.
Whatever I think you said -- yes.

the reason for encapsulation is this: say I have a field, and certain methods rely on that field being within certain constraints, and a client changes that to a value outside of those constraints, bad things will happen

So don't do it.

okay .. lol .. you just needed to say that i figured thats what you guys meant .. you dont need to give me a whole freakin book on what oop is

Actually, yes we do :0
You're here asking for help. We're willing to give it to you.

we're not here to teach you

Don't blame us if you shoot yourself in the foot

*glee* toho's releasing the original versions of the godzilla movies

we're here to _HELP_ you

don't get the two mixed up

Part of helping you is telling you "dude, you need to learn THIS or THAT". After all, except for meeper, assume that people here are more experienced and may know better how to do things

And slava and dibblego, on the random full harvest moon that they're around

don't listen to them, all you need is a a public of static methods an a few arrays.

Damn.

err
i'm too tired

"Legend Stan Lee developing Paris Hilton animated series for MTV."
Scary.

WTF

haha

*sigh*

heh

I'm actually wearing steel-toe boots.

~tell cbrock about pulp fiction

cbrock, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

comon. that was a little bit funny.

i just asked a question about one specific thing .. i started learning java like last fall you dont need to assume i know nothing else about the language :/

He told me to!
cbrock:

we handed you resources

~literal pulp fiction

reply(You feel that sting, big boy, huh? That's pride FUCKIN' with you! You gotta fight through that shit!|Say what again. SAY WHAT AGAIN. I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say what one more goddamn time.|English, motherfucker, do you speak it?|Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead.|Well, let's not start sucking each other's dicks quite yet.|I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?)

Do you see a sign out front of my house....

encapsulation is there for the safety of your object's state

well, i'm telling you to kick r0bby.

zed is not dead!

for having a 0 in his name instead of an 'o'

like pr3d4t0r ?

i'll excuse the double standard for you

you expect people to read some entire tutorial on a link you just throw up r0bby? when that has barely anything to do with the question they asked :s

look at his nick, that'd make him a hypocrite

k i get it

here we go...

/kick r0bby

oh brother...

lol

~w00t

w00000000000000000000000000000t!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!

It didn't work. This gizmo is broken.
/kick r0bby
Hrm...
Let me try on someone else.

Hahaha

lol

hey that worked

HAHA

I guess.

lol

alright. i hate all of you.

lol

We do too

~tell cbrock about Russian roulette

cbrock, click

~tell cbrock about Russian roulette

cbrock, click

~tell cbrock about Russian roulette

cbrock, bang! - you're dead

You can find hte door

its ok, dude

American components, Russian components... All made in Taiwan!

[TechGuy]: Fuck that movie. Fuck ben Afflack...and I'd fuck Liv Tyler

whoa

public class SlotMachine { private double money; ... } now in the case of that example, what happens if the machine has a NEGATIVE value for money?
it makes no sense

private? And double?
~ridicule r0bby

WAT!

then the pancakes wouldnt be hot

throw an exception?

crap

why not private and double?

~smack r0bby

what the fuck is wrong with a private double?

yeah

dude i know that if the variable requires logic before being accepted you need to have accessor methods ...
thats pretty obvious ..

~smack [TechGuy]

I'm assuming you wanted it to be a public field to show off why koshe's approach would be problematic

[TechGuy]: no i did that intentionally

you cant have a negative pancake

*shrug*

unsigned double?

i like negative pancakes

I have negative pancakes right now

-pancake = waffle

oui!

of course not, BUT ALWAYS use accessor/mutator methods

getMoney
setMoney

if you don't chuck norris will beat you down

POJO

and trust me, when he beats you, you'll wish he was your daddy...I lost my train of thought

a public member variable
?
is that what koshe wants to do?

yes
why do you think i'm explaining why encapsulation exists?

i was wondering why Point class uses pointObj.x and pointObj.y karstensrage ......
java.awt.Point
i never used a public variable before and i was wondering what cases you could use one in

there are sometimes appropriate times to bypass the encapsulation paradigm. i doubt kosche has stumbled on one of them. on the other hand, java 1.5 and better has accessor-erasure as a basic optimzation now.

and everyone else is all like BLAHBLAHBLAH YOU DUMB read the basics of oop /me throws a random link up with javabot

~POJO

svm_invictvs, POJO is Plain Old Java Objects, as opposed to things like EJBs.

im guessing cause getX and getY return the double values

I thought POJO was some kind of chineese food....

and you cant have overloading with different return types

more like bean

but I would guess thats a very rare example

AWT is even cruftier and odder than Swing

lol swing is pretty strange o_O

For a job interview question they asked me, "What is Swing?"

was it yesterday? :s

many JDK classes use direct field accesss internally. particularily the collections classes.

sometimes you can that; not use encapsulation. But in general, Don't. If you do, I'll show up at your door.

hostile ..

"Uh...Java's UI framework..."

Something you push your kids on at the park

Isn't that sort of a broad qusetion.

me like swing

[TechGuy]: A style of music commonly associated with the big band genre?

Indeed!
I play in one

They asked the most painfully simple questions for this job interview.
"What is inheritance?"
"What is a class?"

hopefully a lot

did you walk out of the interview, after taking a poo on the desk?

a place for students to sleep

It was on the phone.

did you poo on the phone?

Inheritance is something you get when people die
that's the OO way to get rich.

Swing? It's what Benny Goodman was the king of.

I heard that joke someplace

I said, "To be truly pedantic, a class defines a data structure and the operations on that structure. And an object is an instance of a class."

was this a job interview for writing OO for dummies

He goes, "Well, I was gonna ask what an object is....but we'll move on."

~Profilers

A profiler is a tool to find performance bottlenecks. jmp and ejp are free; jprofiler and jprobe cost money. Some more are listed here: http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?169 also see http://yourkit.com (not free)

I walked out of an interview once, because they were quizzing me on specific Swing API shit.

heh

I had an interview where somebody asked me to explain private, public, etc.
I did.

This guy asked, "What happens if you have two threads access an array list at the same time."

Then they said "and what about package"?

I just said, "Undefined Behavior."

And I said, "Well, package is, well, package."

And he goes, "And...what happens then?"

lol
after undefined

I would've said "at the *exact same time*?"

An Exception is thrown and the program blows up

The phone went silent for like 30 seconds.

He had a bit ego, I think he felt threatened by me. :-).

What's unclear about Undefined Behavior?

well, if both threads are just reading, nothing bad happens

yep

That's where you say, "Well, it depends on your JVM implementation and your underlying threading platform. Do you understand how the java memory model works?"

It's undefined, thus unclear.

well did you get the job?

no, whatever exactly he asked he was refering to a situation where you end up invoking UB.

based on the question, nothing happens. everything is fine. he didn't say the threads was modifying the array.

Actually, that's would have been a good answer, "Well, if it's *my* code, an excpetion is thrown, because I don't allow that sort of thing."

"fuck you. next question."

UB?

Undefined Behavior

undef behavior

I got a second interview but declined.

undefined behavior is fun. any answer you give is technically correct

Come to think of it, two or three interviews ago I had to argue with their chief architect about why double-checked locking was broken :-).
uCome to think of it, two or three interviews ago I had to argue with their chief architect about why double-checked locking was broken :-)./u
OR rather, he didn't understand why it was, so I just shrugged and said, "well, you can ask Doug Lea about it."
OR rather, he didn't understand why it was, so I just shrugged and said, "well, you can ask Doug Lea about it."

red hat didn't really ask my anything technical in my interview.

what did they hire you for?

Then he brought up, I think it was the volatile keyword, which I didn't get into but yes, these days you can use that keyword to do double-checked locking safely, but in performance terms it's a wash in the end, costs as much, and now your code isn't as clear.
Fortunately, I didn't really want that job.

Double checked locking?

i don't think anything related to the actual *act of programming* ever even came up

what?

the best interviews ive had is where the guy brings an actual problem hes trying to solve and we both brain storm on it

Sr. Software Engineer

Yeah, that was my last interview.

don't use volatile to do double checked locking. that's just stupid.
and they hired you?

I wasn't the one suggesting it :-).

yeah, i start in a few weeks.

I just looked it up...

nice

Unfortunately, the problem he was trying to solve was a classic.

unfortunately?

It was "well, business has signed on to do this deal which means we have to have this project out the door in 60 days.

though it makes me doubt even more redhat's intent to do serious tech instead of just selling support

oh
oof

i work on OSS projects, and the interviewer was familiar with my work.

forget that

And the fun part was he had no clue about the app.

what projects?

they didn't need to ASK me about my competency

Double Checked locking...
~double checked locking

I guess the factoid '-xlint:unchecked' might be appropriate:

Basically, private-branding an existing app that stock traders at this bank used internally, to be used by another bank.

svm_invictvs, -xlint:unchecked is a compile-time warning. For more details, http://qa.jtiger.org/GetQAndA.action?qids=70&showAnswers=true

well, this is the real one that got my hired: http://mvel.codehaus.org

So okay, how many classes is it? Dunno. How many LOC? Dunno. How many screens? Dunno.
:-).

ah well that's that then

Okay, you know what a singleton is?

lol

Yeah, I'm reading about it. This article from IBM.
something seems just not kosher about if(foo == null) { sync(obj) {if (foo==null) { ...} } }

You wrote mvel?

you're gonna work for red hat?

today I spent 2.5 hours discussing whether the email subject should be (karstensrage) your shit failed

You're correct.

or your shiit failed (karstensrage)
no?

It's a stupid dodge for questionable gains, and likely to work quite nicely 999,999 times out of a million.

YES
i signed my employment contract today

awesome

congrats cbrock

I wouldn't have been able to actually call that out as "double-checked locking"..

Sorry, misunderstood your "this is the real one that got my hired" comment.

It's overoptimization...

well, this is the real one that got my hired: http://mvel.codehaus.org

Well, there's a semi-famous (in certain circles) paper titled something like "Double-Checked Locking Is Broken", signed by a bunch of concurrent programming luminaries, including Doug Lea.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-dcl.html

puff karstensrage == cbrock, it is a conspiracy.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is why the fuck not just do public synchronized static getInstance() { if instance == null return instance = new Foo() }

that's what you should do. the problem is geeks are stupid.

Most likely, since all threads are sharing that object anyhow the objet itself is going to have copious amounts of synch blocks as well.

Here's the thing about that style; the java memory model basically does not guarantee that the if / initailziation lines will come in sequence.

they think if they can squeeze out an extra 3% performance it's worth introducing subtle, unpredictable bugs into their program. It's the whole stupid male we-can-make-it-bigger-stronger-faster mentality that obsesses about performance

That is, the initialization may only be half-completed when the reference is returned.

a better solution to the DCL problem in Java is just to have the instance method stored in a seperate class all together
err
the instance field

that's not a better solution

Factory Pattern?

My work here is done ;-).

http://rafb.net/p/UqLen131.html
or in most cases that will probably just do fine...

the structure of java's memory model makes the ... if (inst == null) { synchronized (this) { ... // initialize; } }
idiom safe

good night

if the instance is physically in another class
so

it's still stupid

back up why meeper.

if (HolderClass.inst == null) { synchronized (this) { HolderClass.inst = new Instance() } } return HolderClass.inst;
given the way Java's memory model works
it is a somewhat acceptable work-around

well let's see, it's unclear, it's class bloat, and it's the silly kind of performance optimization which never translates into any real gain. it's masturbation.

That always leads to satisfaction

...
what's your solution?

http://rafb.net/p/LeUUMP20.html or just do taht because most likely calling getInstance() isn't going to be a fucking bottleneck anyhow...

the other reliable option, is to your ThreadLocals
which are umm... not the most performant solution

It's just somebody being a ricer with java code.

it is perfectly 'performant' because the gain of DCL is totally neglible
DCL is a total waste unless you're using jdk 1.1

I mean...this isnt' eaxctly java....but in some languages memory allocation has to be protected by a mutex...
like I think in C, you can only have one thread calling malloc() at a time.

does meeper have rabies?
he's foaming at the mouth.

he just thinks on a different level.

no that's not true, though I imagine some C implementations may sync mutex

yeah, but it's implementation specific

cbrock, meeper thinks on a different level

rabies, no, zero patience for stupidity, yes
and yes, I think on a different level
it's like the fifth dimension. you're familiar with the fifth dimension?

And even if you, the application programmer, dont' have to protect malloc with a mutex that's not to say that malloc itself wont' block out other threads...
my two cents...

malloc is threadsafe, whether it uses a lock or not doesn't really matter tho I think most malloc impls do use a global lock

that's a pretty bold statement.

I think on a different level

in fact, malloc() and free() are not neccessarily threadsafe... at least in glibc unless _REENTRANT is defined.

dude, they're threadsafe. I'm sure you can do magic to make them not threadsafe, but in reality malloc is always threadsafe

they are either threadsafe of they are not. if there are scenarios by which they could not be threadsafe, then they are not

this war was fought long time ago. the silly C++ programmers who wanted to make malloc not threadsafe for "performance" were fought off

there is no such thing as "mostly threadsafe" or "generally threadsafe in most situations"

hey

well yes, if you'redumb. but like I said, in reality they are always threadsafe

meeper how old are you? You strike me as an old man
gone senile
stuck in his eyes
s/eyes/ways/

!DOCTYPE hibernate-configuration PUBLIC "-//Hibernate/Hibernate Configuration DTD 3.0//EN"
"http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/hibernate-configuration-3.0.dtd"
has two separate things in quotation marks after public?

net split? :s
awesome
ah nop :s where's everyone going then?

hi use to program in gcc now I want to learn java I have some question regarding this

:O you ended your sentence with a preposition
hello there

~tell dhakatel about getstarted

dhakatel, getstarted is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted

there's your answer.

he hasn't even asked his question yet .. _

I read this articales

ah
okay, then just ask

but I don't get my answers

you assume too much mister

where is select poll (io multiplexing in java)
where is fork in java
where is pipe named piple fofi in java

for something like select, check the nio package and async sockets

where is share memory in java

anyone aware if you can setup a functional junit test to mess around with the database with a service object, do some stuff and just roll back all the writes?

basically I need to port a program to gcc to java

~tell dhakatel about nio

dhakatel, nio is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/nio/ and http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/io/nio.html and http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/cpjslides/nio.pdf

I don't think java has fork, it's a unixism, but you can have multiple threads and launch other processes

junit. but you'll have to write the code yourself and first try it with a stub

there's something called dbunit, don't know much about it though

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/599

thanks

thinking of doing something like this

is there any exec function in java?

and you can use a memory database (a mockup of the real database)
~tell dhakatel about javadoc Runtime

dhakatel, please see java.lang.Runtime: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Runtime.html

aditsu, rollback keeps failing on me

I don't know about "piple fofi" and shared memory

pipe named pipe
fifo

http://forum.springframework.org/showthread.php?t=11658

if you can switch from multitasking to multithreading, you can replace these with direct data access

it was a spelling mistake
yap

I think Java cheats and just exposes named pipes as files.
But I've not really done anything with them.

so there is no inter process communication in java except socket ?

java has threads, it doesn't need i[c
err ipc

Oh, Java does have pipes after all. I think they're just for interthread communication though.

whatever you're doing with ipc can probably be done cheaper/faster/better with threads

there's some kind of direct inter-jvm communication, don't know much about it though

if you need real ipc, then use jms, specifically activemq, google activemq

Is there? Everything I've seen is built on top of sockets.

thaks a lot
*thanks

no there's not, aditsu is drunk
a jvm is a machine. there is no inter-jvm communication but sockets, that is the communication between machines

I heard about it

As much as I hate to, unless you can be more specific I'm going to side with meeper on this one.

why don't you completely rewrite the application, rather than converting line by line?

yeah, I'm looking for more info before smiting meeper

Even if he does that, it's probably still worth translating some of the concepts rather than coming up with a completely new architecture.

that's what I have to do as per as this discation

There are worse things to do than diving in and getting your hands dirty with NIO.

hehe, I know this like the back of my hand
there are two ways to pass info between jvms, sockets and memory mapped files and nobody with half a brain ever uses memory mapped files
sun has repeatedly emphasized this, a jvm is a machine
there have been countless proposals for true shmem within jvms
but sun is all like, the network is the computer

There are a bunch of abstractions for JVM interaction like terracotta (yes meeper, I know you don't like it. We don't need to hear the rant again), but they're all just built on top of the lower level primitives like sockets. Maybe you're thinking of one of those.

terracotta terracotta terracotta pie!

Hmm. I'm glad this code isn't going to be reviewed by anyone but me.
I'd get shot for the amount of package private access modifiers I'm using.

why is that?
that's a bad thing?

what time is it? Don't you sleep?

6am for him

package private is nice until you move a class out of the package, then stuff starts breaking ;P

how can I use syslog form java

I like it too, but people laways complain about it.

and?

~Logger4j

r0bby, I have no idea what Logger4j is.

~Log4j

r0bby, Log4j is a logging system for java. See http://logging.apache.org/log4j/docs/index.html.

stuff usually does when you randomly move things around without updating references

there we go

It's 7 AM. My body has decided recently that I'm not allowed more than about 5-6 hours sleep. Previously I'd been failing to sleep until 4, but I@ve managed to shift the sleep period about 5 hours back.

who complains?

People in here mostly. It seems to be grouped with * imports and static interfaces as 'bad practices' which I like.

well anything that gets in the way of their bassackwards hackery

HEY! no killing him
he's my friend

wow people actually use java

hey, you still got me babe

not the same :'(

granted, i'll be asleep, but still ;P

you people are SPOILT

hell, i SHOULD be sleeping now, need to be at work in 6 hrs for a morning of db2 seminars

like eggs

ok, I guess I was misinformed (either that or it was something to do with memory mapped files)
however, claiming I'm drink is just stupid
drunk*

i'd say that clinches it

So is he, so it's okay

Hi!
i need some help

Heh. I think it's mostly an argument about what the right level of granularity for a program is. Some people seem very hung up about program granularity being class centric, and I think where a number of these complaints come from (particularly the 'moving a class to another package' one. Private fields are bad too - they stop you moving methods to other classes.)

~ask

The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.

actually i am making a remote administeration client, which will have emulated terminal, service management, and alert system in java

heh, bad-timed typo

what do you think, how much ram should a mobile phone have to support that? and what about disk space?

~tell Cursed_6_Ds about j2me

Cursed_6_Ds, j2me is the Java Micro Edition. It is used for embedded devices such as cell phones and PDAs. See http://java.sun.com/javame/index.jsp and #j2me

yup

there is a channel more specialized to j2me

Hmm. ANd the compiler suddenly goes batshit insane. Yay!

define "batshit insane"

It's refusing to accept covariant return types and is complaining that I cannot apply operator == to MyClass, nulltype.
Oh, how dull.
It just somehow got really confused by a missing import.

DRMacIver, wow
in C++ you'd be lucky if thats all the compiler did
batshit instame
insane...

there is no one there to helkp me enough

In C++ you're lucky if the compiler doesn't break into your house and kill your children.

and your cat

I hope the compiler kills the one that scratches me all the time
the other one is nice
(cat)

I thought you were talking about Java. I had a club in my hand ready to act. :P

um, its not a club, even if your gf tells you that to make you feel better

That's just mean.

tell her not me

I wonder if Java has been ported to syllable yet. Hmm.

whats syllable

A hobbyist OS.
Sort of like Amiga was back in the day.

I think sun is going to get right on it

I wasn't referring to Sun.
I say do it when you least suspect you'd do it. Like waking up at 3am prior to your trip just to open it and then go back to sleep.

uncork it now, because it may get lost on your trip pr3d4t0r

I hope not.
This pen has too many adventures to tell.
Well, technically it isn't the same pen anymore, but nevertheless the original's soul lives in this one.
The original was stolen, along with my wallet, last 17.Sep. The police found it and got it back to me around 3-4 weeks ago.
The manufacturer replaced it at no charge to me, to thank me for being a good customer.
It was a hell of a gesture, considering that the pen hasn't been available to the public since 2000 and the remaining ones out there are all collectibles now.
So I'm a bit reluctant to fill it with ink and start using it. I don't want to lose it again.

well it's a pen after all.

Then again, sitting in its box away from the limelight isn't doing anyone any good

exactly.
right time to go and add SAP a/c's for norway :/

Heh.
I'm going to Oslo in September
Yey!

nice, and barcelona as well i hear

there are a lot of flamers in oslo

maybe i should set all thier passwords to flamers so.
anyway, gtg

You should know.
Nice... 888 views so far.

pr3d4t0r, I almost didn't get out
pr3d4t0r, http://www.gimpel.com/html/bugs.htm

Heh.

pr3d4t0r, its surprisingly fun

arg hsqldb does not have boolean?
*sigh* WARNING - USERS.ACTIVE data type (16, ëBOOLEANí) not recognized and will be ignored. See FAQ for more information.